Spanked a twin-turbo AWD 911 on the big end...

[Turbosix6]

Epitomes kill - sounds familiar...
Beautiful Porsche 911 Turbo Surrenders In Defeat.....Funny....Long
I think you guys will like this. Nice cool day today, so I take the GN out for the first time in a while. 3/4 tank of 114 octane, 20lbs boost, 24 degrees timing, typical very low 11, 123mph tuning for my car. I jump on the thruway going south to cruise a little and do a few errands. A few minutes into the trip, I notice a white Porsche 911 Turbo making its way up to me in the left lane (I'm in the middle lane), so I slow down to 50mph. As he gets up to me, a car from the right lane pulls over in front of me to pass a truck, so I can't really do anything. Anyway, he looks over at me as he goes by and then just nails it and flys ahead. That's when I notice the even wider than stock tires and custom rims, the car looked really clean and really nice. I of course, jump over in the left lane to follow and see what he does. He gets over in the middle lane ahead and slows down waiting for me. I pull up beside him at about 55 mph and look over at him. He only looks at me for a second and then just nails it. Luckily I was ready and waiting in 3rd gear. I pin the throttle right after him and immediately begin pulling by him. When the back of my car was even with the front of his, he went to make a shift, making it MUCH worse for him, I began pulling on him even worse than before. I got about 8 cars ahead, shut it down and got over in the middle lane and slowed to 55mph for him to catch up. Instead he stayed back for a while, I'm not sure what he was doing, but just when I thought he had had enough, he suddenly flys up next to me in the left lane again. I look over and he is emphatically pointing ahead over and over again, telling me to go again. Now I have the JUMP?.......Yummy! I'm not sure what he was thinking, but it didn't take more than a few seconds and many car lengths before I figure he must have shut down. It was hard to tell, he was so far back. OK, here's the funny part, I was laughing my butt off...... I slow down and he eventually pulls up next to me again. I look over figuring he wants to go again, but at this point I'm done beating up on him. To my surprise, what do I see when I look over? A big grin on this 40 something year old guys face and he's waving a white handkerchief. He then drops the hanky, gives me the "OK" sign and takes off ahead. What a good sport, I thought he was gonna be all pissed about it. Instead, he had me laughing the whole way home

 

[Epitome]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I do know that Raven is very well liked on this site, probably the best storyteller we have. I think you guys should just forget this whole argument.

 

[Raven]

Yeah... right.

Turbosix6 - let's see... YOU write a story about beating a Porsche 911 TT AWD on the big end by SEVERAL car lengths and about running a sustained 150+ mph while doing so. Hmmm.... and you call ME a "liar".

You have nothing to prove that what you said is true other than the fact you "said" it, and, even more glaring is the undeniable truth that the numbers/facts of your "kill" just don't add up.

And they never will. Have a nice day.

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Originally posted by Raven


But the Porsche still has THREE more gears - the TB has ONE.

Originally posted by Raven

You've still not proven anything IMO. Sure, the NASCAR boys did what they did, but they didn't do it in cars that weighed as much as yours does, they didn't do it on stock suspension, and they certainly didn't do it with stock gearing in the tranny/rear end.

Actually I believe the NASCAR weight limit is around 3000lbs, I would bet no less than 2800lbs. So the weight issue is probably negligable at speed. You're right about gearing though, I bet it was a lower gear ratio, probably in the 3.00-3.30 range (just a guess). The buick in OD is roughly 2.29 final drive.

Doesn't having three more gears to row hurt the turbo porsche more than help it in a high speed battle? The ideas behind a close ratio trans is for acclerating out of corners, within the power band. At high speed having to shift would probably hurt the porsche since the boost will fall off slightly for a second at every shift.

Also I doubt the Porsche was in 3rd gear at 120+ when the Buick needs to shift, not sure though. And the buick with the converter locked can go 180mph @ 5100rpm on a 28" tire. Road Load (read rolling resistance + Aerodynamic friction + frictional losses) are tough to guesstimate, but I would think an 11sec car has enough 'who's yer daddy' to push it all.

As for the handling of the buick, I'm sure it's more of a handfull than the porsche, but the road and suspension of the buick would dictate whether or not it was possible.

I've had my GN to 125, with Cooper LifeLiner 215/65/15s and I thought it felt pretty solid. Of course I thought I was doing about 90mph until I hit the speed limiter, but it was solid nonetheless.

My vote: Good Job TurboSix6

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Originally posted by Epitome
I haven't read the whole thread, but I do know that Raven is very well liked on this site, probably the best storyteller we have. I think you guys should just forget this whole argument.

I disagree, I like Raven's stories as much as the next guy. BUT writing awesome stories doesn't give him the right to smoke people without being held accountable for it. If you wanna talk the talk, you should be prepared to take the consequences. If people want to argue about this then I see no reason not to let it run it's course.

If I said I the sky is red, I better have proof or be prepared to be called a liar.

 

[Epitome]

See, I think part of the problem here is that the supposed "big end" is different for both cars. I believe because of gearing, aerodynamics, weight, etc, the porsche would easily get from say 115 or 120 to let's say 165+ much more quickly than the GN, even with less hp and torque. The top of the big end to me in a GN is 115-130 and that's when the porsche is probably just settling in. I'm not saying that the GN can't go faster, it just has many more limiting factors at that point compared to the porsche. The reason I think the story is possible is because I watched all these 911 porsches make passes at Etown the last time I was there, including 2 TT awd models. Because the drivers were all inexperienced, the fastest pass any of the 30 some of them made was still in the 13s. I have it all on video. If the shift isn't made quick enough the spool is lost and the car needs a second to recover, so the driver's skill is very important. Same thing happened when I raced that modded porsche from a 55 mph roll, I was pulling him hard, but it got MUCH worse when he went to shift. This can easily account for a 5 car length advantage. I got in an argument on the Viper board some months ago with a guy that was bad mouthing GNs. I said " I'll spot you 4 cylinders and about $50,000 and I think you'll be very disappointed when you see who gets to the end of the quarter mile first". Another Viper owner responded and said, "I'll give the GN the 1/4 mile, but then I want to see the same two cars race again from 100mph-180mph". He was right, under that scenario I probably would lose and that's to a car that was more than a second slower than me in the 1/4 mile. I have no idea if the story is true, all I know is it seems atleast believable.

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Sure the porsche needs less horsepower to defeat drag at high speed, and that's exactly what it's got. I'd bet the porsche can get a little light in the nose too actually, the side profile looks like it could make a lot of lift. (except the rear spoiler of course) I bet it breaks the wind from underneath somehow, to defeat lift.

As for the other components of Road Load, I would call it a draw, (the GN might win rolling resistance do to skinnier tires) which brings it to HP versus Drag. period.

415hp at the crank aint so hot. Assuming 95% drivetrain efficiency (high) then it's not even 400HP at the wheels.

Even though it's irrelevant.
I bet an eleven second car that weighs 3500lbs and runs a 1/4 in under 12sec makes more than 400hp at the wheels and automatics usually have less than 85% driveline efficiency. I bet it stomps the 'exotic' in HP from the crankshaft.

 

[Raven]

Ok...

First off, having three more gears does not hurt the Porsche at all - in fact, it helps it considerably because it keeps the engine rpm up in the horsepower band. And, weight has an effect at any speed - it still takes horsepower to overcome rolling resistance and wind resistance. And actually, the amount of horsepower needed is NOT linear - it is a curve that rises sharply if the frontal cross section of one car is larger than the other (added wind resistance), if one car is heavier, and if the desired speed rises.

Look at any road tests of any given vehicle that are timed and measured. Getting a given vehicle to 100mph may only take 9-10 seconds or so. But getting that same vehicle to 150+ mph may take yet another 8-10 seconds or more depending upon aerodynamics, tire size/loading, available horsepower and especially gearing. This zone is where the Porsche is designed to run best - left lane Autobahn speeds.

I've driven lots of different cars at 150 mph+ and it takes a lot more horsepower to move a vehicle at a given weight and frontal cross section the higher you to want to run. Our Buicks are at a severe disadvantage at those kind of speeds because of the drag and the way the air moves around/over/under the G-body platform. These reasons alone are enough for me to say it is impossible to believe this story.

Another point - depending upon how the driver shifts he may not lose any boost at all. TT AWD Porsches are unbelievably strong on the big end, much moreso than in the 1/4 - and in the quarter they are no slouch either. But at 150 mph, they still have lungs and legs left - plenty of them.

Can an 11 second Turbo Buick beat a Porsche 911 AWD TT on the big end? Simply, yes - but extremely doubtful; only IF the perfect conditions were there. But - and this is a HUGE 'but' - the driver of the Porsche would have to be asleep at the wheel and more importantly, the Buick guy would have to be in race trim. Actually, he most likely would have to have more than a high 11 second car to get this kind of kill, which supposed this particular Buick is ("11.70@115").

I've driven the Porsches and as impressive as the TR's are at boost, the Porsches are even moreso at the big end. While our TR's are designed and built and modified to run the quarter as fast as possible, the Porsche is built for the open road high speed run and handling with the cajones to back it up.

If the story would have been about a race in the quarter, I would not even hesitate to say "Nice Kill". But this was supposedly from a 75 mph roll (and discussed through open windows no less), with the TR just simply anhilating a 400+ HP Twin Turbo All Wheel Drive Porsche. Only if the Porsche driver was already in overdrive and never shifted would this be possible. And the guy would be an absolute idiot to race like this which would be hard to even fathom. And, the TR would have to be in race trim with race gas in the tank and in 100% strip tune. Our cars are NOT that strong on the top end and it's a fact of life. In fourth gear, we're in overdrive which changes the entire powerband structure considerably. At top speed in max rpm the 3.8 does NOT breathe nearly as well unless the heads are reworked. That is not the case here.

I'm still waving the BS flag and doing so confidently. Yes, Virginia - the sky IS red... I'm sure of it. Either it WASN'T a TT AWD Porsche and he DID beat something less than (and at speeds less than 150mph) OR, it simply didn't happen.

Peace.

 

[Epitome]

Raven, now come on, you have to admit that all it takes is one slow shift through one of those gears and it can make a significant difference. With a better driver, maybe things would have been different, samething in my race a few months ago. Believe me, if you saw how poorly these 30+ porsche owners were rowing through the gears, I think you'd see it takes a lot more skill to drive one of them than a GN. What if the guy doesn't run the rpm up high enough? Or shift qucik enough? Or start out in too high of a gear? While I was getting teched that day at the track, one of those guys in a modded TT911 was next to me and we were talking. I don't think it was awd. He said he'd spent a lot of money in mods and was told the car made 500 hp. He also said it was very fast and scary to drive. I said "I guess we'll be seeing some 11 second passes today". He said he'd hoped so. He never got out of the 14s all day! I videoed him and watched him all day. What a waste of money. Atleast learn to drive it. It was 6 speed. I spoke to him after and he was very disappointed. When he asked how I did and said I had run 11.2 @ 120mph accidentally shifting into 4th gear (new shift light duh) with 20 lbs of boost and 20 degrees of timing advance (he was clueless) he was shocked. So......the driver means a lot in those cars. Even upstairs, one small mistake can mean a couple or more car lengths. So come on Raven atleast admit it's possible, even if you think he's lying

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Burning the BS Flag

Originally posted by Raven
First off, having three more gears does not hurt the Porsche at all - in fact, it helps it considerably because it keeps the engine rpm up in the horsepower band. And, weight has an effect at any speed - it still takes horsepower to overcome rolling resistance and wind resistance. And actually, the amount of horsepower needed is NOT linear - it is a curve that rises sharply if the frontal cross section of one car is larger than the other (added wind resistance), if one car is heavier, and if the desired speed rises.

You are absolutely 100% correct about the facts of rolling resistance and drag.

However, drag is the only one where I think the buick really gets waxed. And, not to mention, if they are both traveling at the same speeds the effect of velocity drops out of the equation. The Porsche isn't that much lighter. What was it 3200lbs? That'll effect rolling resistance which I still think is a neglible win for the GN, not the porsche. When you get your 911 TT we'll do a coast down test on both a GN and the porsche, on the same road, and it and see which one wins out.

All it takes to overcome these factors is POWER, and I still say the GN has plenty more POWER than the porsche. And I still say that shifting a manual trans, has a disadvantageous effect on the porsche. Where as the GN will just pull through the power band from 130 where it runs out of 3rd clear to at least 4500rpm with a stock cam, which would be good from roughly 170mph on a 28" tire.

The reason I make the shifting arguement is because the Viper is similarly geared 6sp manual, and we've all seen the video on www.buickpower.com where the two GNs walk the Viper GTS like a dog, and they get at least a car length at every shift, you can count them plan as day. The Viper has better aerodynamics than the GN and it still gets beat, it doesn't start to catch the GN at about 80mph, it goes BACKWARDS.

My speculations:
Comparing a Viper to a Porsche I would consider Aerodynamics and Gearing to be a draw. I would give power to the Viper, I would give Wind Resistance to the Viper too, with only weight going to the Porsche. So the Viper Should win from 80mph-150mph. (Maybe it doesn't I'm only speculating). So considering all this, and the fact that the most GN's can wax a Viper. How can you find this Porsche one so hard to believe??

I find it to be a very credible story and I truly don't understand your reason for calling him out except that you just don't like him. I think it's a very good way to ruin a forum that was intended for braggin about our cars' ability to pound targets like a $100K 'exotic'

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Originally posted by Epitome
So come on Raven atleast admit it's possible, even if you think he's lying

Seriously, Raven. You act like this guy ran off with your old lady or something.

No offense itended, so if the guy did run off with your old lady then I didn't mean it.

 

[86brick]

"The reason I make the shifting arguement is because the Viper is similarly geared 6sp manual, and we've all seen the video on www.buickpower.com where the two GNs walk the Viper GTS like a dog, and they get at least a car length at every shift, you can count them plan as day. The Viper has better aerodynamics than the GN and it still gets beat, it doesn't start to catch the GN at about 80mph, it goes BACKWARDS. "


Does anyone know the exact modd's on those buicks that waxed that viper for comparison purposes?

I think this is a very good point, a viper GTS and turbo Porsche are very close in hsp/gearing/aerodynamics. Although that race in the video is from a dead stop, the viper makes up no ground on the top end, and actually hangs close on the bottom end where the buick shines. (vipers are torque monsters)

I think this kill is no where near as fair fetched as Raven makes it sound, but he has stated some arguement that is believable, but you can do that with almost any kill posted here.

I say, someone on this board, has to have a friend with a turbo porsche and have a similar running buick to turbo6's, so why not set up a similar race(75 mph roll) and run them and get some results.

My vote is still=good kill

Brick

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Agreed.

The only thing I can say about the cars in the video vs the Viper are that on close inspection neither had a cage. Not that that means anything, but chances are they are not 10sec cars.

 

[Epitome]

Even if you got a couple of similar cars together, you can't account for the driving prowess of the porsche driver.

 

[Cryptic]

Drag Coefficients

The Dodge Viper GTS has a drag coefficient of .032 while the Porsche 911 has a drag coefficient of .030. The Viper isn't as aerodynamic as it looks as it's designed more for looks. In fact the back end gets loose at speed if anything I've ever read is correct.

 

[Raven]

Originally posted by PRSRIZD_V6


Seriously, Raven. You act like this guy ran off with your old lady or something.

No offense itended, so if the guy did run off with your old lady then I didn't mean it.

No offense taken. That's one thing I don't worry about at all.

I said it before - it IS possible for this story to happen (if the conditions were like I said - race trim, idiot Porsche jockey, not truly a TT AWD, etc.), but I don't think that's the case here. I truly do not believe that he beat a TT AWD Porsche on the big end - no way. From the way it was written, to the way the supposed "race" was described, to the details and so forth, the 7 length "waxing", the supposed sustained 150 mph run? My god, man - the story sounds seriously made up. I mean, c'mon - setting up details verbally on how you're going to race while clipping along at 75 mph through an open window? With the one guy on the other side of the car? Get real - just think about it.

I have nothing personal against Turbosix6 - it's just that this story has WAY too much fiction in it to be even remotely possible. Either way, we're all entitled to our opinion right? We can agree to disagree because I (and many others here) do NOT believe this happened like it supposedly did. Could I be wrong? Maybe. But not this time. And debate/argument will NOT ruin a forum - that's what a forum is for. Just because someone may write something doesn't mean it has to be swallowed hook, line and sinker, right?

As far as the Buick's running the GTS - who knows the story there? We all know that the Turbo Buicks are great quarter milers but when it looks like the GTS is getting walked, it just looks to me like he backed out of it. I've driven the GTS as well as the GTS - ACR. They are NOT dogs and are screamers on the top end as well as down low.

But there is a lot to be said for the driver's ability, regardless if he's in a TR or a Porsche or a GTS. So that's the ONLY reason that I can see it remotely possible that this kill may have happened. Still - given enough highway, a REAL Porsche TT AWD would have showed it's taillights sooner or later - and most likely MUCH sooner than most would like to believe.

Nope, I'm still waving the flag. And the sky is still red.

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Originally posted by Epitome
Even if you got a couple of similar cars together, you can't account for the driving prowess of the porsche driver.

Also agreed. People don't realize that when they read an article about some high dollar car or bike running an 11.89 in stock form that there's a lot of track time and an expert driver that get that number. Some rich old snob isn't going to make perfect shifts for a long time in a car like that.

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Originally posted by Raven



We can agree to disagree because I (and many others here) do NOT believe this happened like it supposedly did.

Could I be wrong? Maybe. But not this time. And debate/argument will NOT ruin a forum - that's what a forum is for. Just because someone may write something doesn't mean it has to be swallowed hook, line and sinker, right?

As far as the Buick's running the GTS - who knows the story there? We all know that the Turbo Buicks are great quarter milers but when it looks like the GTS is getting walked, it just looks to me like he backed out of it. I've driven the GTS as well as the GTS - ACR. They are NOT dogs and are screamers on the top end as well as down low.

But there is a lot to be said for the driver's ability, regardless if he's in a TR or a Porsche or a GTS.

I think we agree to disagree, but I also think that the consensus is that most people think it happened. Maybe there's fishy details, but I've seen stranger things. I also think that the win is entirely possible.

As for swalling hook line and sinker, I think you expect your arguement to be swallowed. And ruining the forum was a little harsh yes, but I think it'll discourage people from writing kills.

I've watched the Viper movie a lot, and I think that he was never going to catch the GN, sure they proabably ran just a little over a 1/3 mile. They were at WOT for roughly 18seconds. There was very breif period where the Viper gained and it think it was a 3-4 shift on the GN in the right lane.

Sure the other cars are gonna be faster, but I'd rate it at 165mph+ From 55mph to 155mph I'll bet on black.

Granted the Viper would have won if it were an open road race for 3miles. I doubt anyone is disputing that.

Driver skill is the one thing we all agree on.

 

[Raven]

Originally posted by PRSRIZD_V6

I think we agree to disagree, but I also think that the consensus is that most people think it happened. Maybe there's fishy details, but I've seen stranger things. I also think that the win is entirely possible.

We disagree here (and there are a lot more people who don't think this happened than have posted), but that's cool.

As for swalling hook line and sinker, I think you expect your arguement to be swallowed.

Don't we all debate these things trying to convince someone of their side? Sure, I firmly believe that this story is - as you say - fishy. But, I also believe that if one looks at the reality of this particular claim, they will see that it's just impossible - unless the other car was NOT a TT AWD. Or, the Porsche guy was an idiot (which in my view would be like killing a Cavalier who was trying). Or, they didn't really run close to the 150+ mph as claimed - which I don't believe this particular TR was doing, regardless. However, in the story we're told that he flat out dusted this victim easily and the Porsche guy was driving his ass off. Yeah right.

Either way, I think the story defies common sense as well as physics. After all, the Turbo Porsche will actually run nearer to 190 mph - bone stock.

And ruining the forum was a little harsh yes, but I think it'll discourage people from writing kills.

It should only discourage those that want to post something as equally fictitious. An honest-to-god-kill is one thing - a walk down fantasy lane presented as a true kill is another.

I've watched the Viper movie a lot, and I think that he was never going to catch the GN, sure they proabably ran just a little over a 1/3 mile. They were at WOT for roughly 18seconds. There was very breif period where the Viper gained and it think it was a 3-4 shift on the GN in the right lane.

Hmmm... interesting points here. First of all - there's a hell of a lot of difference in the performance of a true 10 second car versus an 11 second one. It takes a lot more HP to cut another second off the ET - and if that was indeed a stock GTS and they were in fact 10 second TR's, the GTS was toast from the get go. No surprise to me on this one IF the TR's are 10 second killers.

However, in the 'kill story' we supposedly have a HIGH eleven second TR walking the dog (*cough*) on a car that is built to run upwards of 190 mph. There can be no comparison between a high 11 second GN and a true 10 second one. So, I think the GTS got roasted for a couple of reasons. One - the driver couldn't drive. The obvious lags between shifts proves he wasn't powershifting. So, each shift he loses some ground while trying to run a built TR with a performance automatic. Second, IF those were truly 10 second TR's they SHOULD have trounced a stock low 12 second GTS easily.

However, IMHO, there's simply no way to correlate the GTS kill with this supposed kill of a TT AWD Porsche given what we were told. Impossible. We're talking about two different kind of races (from a start versus an 80 mph roll). Nope - it didn't happen.

Sure the other cars are gonna be faster, but I'd rate it at 165mph+ From 55mph to 155mph I'll bet on black.

It all depends upon what kind of "black" car you're talking about, what kind of race (1/4 versus a top end run), and what it's racing. A high 11 TR versus a TT AWD Porsche on the big end? From an 80 mph roll? Nope, I'll bet on the Porsche and I'll win that bet. From a stop in the quarter, I'll bet on the black.

Granted the Viper would have won if it were an open road race for 3miles. I doubt anyone is disputing that.

It wouldn't take three miles if the two cars were as portrayed in the 'kill story'. In less than one mile and especially from an 80 mph roll, the Porsche will show it's taillights to the high 11 second TR (which had to be in street trim/tune and NOT race/11.7 sec ET tune) with ease, as long as it's driven by a reasonably proficient driver.

Driver skill is the one thing we all agree on.

I'll agree about the driving skills, too.

If Turbosix6 had not been so certain he had supposedly killed a TT AWD with such ease, then I could easily see his car beating a Carrera or TT Clone. But he was certain of the type of Porsche - and that's why I'm equally certain it didn't happen, at least as written.

But hey, that's just my opinion, right?

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Originally posted by Raven


Either way, I think the story defies common sense as well as physics. After all, the Turbo Porsche will actually run nearer to 190 mph - bone stock.

I don't doubt the fact that the Porsche will do 190mph, I do however believe that it takes a month of Sundays to get there once you hit 6th gear. Only 415HP at the crank!? Come on! That's nothing.

You make very valid points about aero-drag at the very high speeds. I agree that the Buick will probably hit terminal velocity at around 160 and it'll run out of gear at 180 so that is totally out of the question.

With the amount of power needed to run a mid-11 I think the car should be able to hold off the porsche, until 150, if nothing else it's believable.

Originally posted by Raven


Hmmm... interesting points here. First of all - there's a hell of a lot of difference in the performance of a true 10 second car versus an 11 second one. It takes a lot more HP to cut another second off the ET - and if that was indeed a stock GTS and they were in fact 10 second TR's, the GTS was toast from the get go. No surprise to me on this one IF the TR's are 10 second killers.

So, I think the GTS got roasted for a couple of reasons. One - the driver couldn't drive. The obvious lags between shifts proves he wasn't powershifting. So, each shift he loses some ground

Aren't these terms contradictory. First you say the non-caged TR's are 10sec cars (which is possible don't get me wrong). Then you say that that the guy in the Viper is a clown and could have gotten waxed by a 12sec car? Which is it?

Just because a car is built to run 190 doesn't mean it pulls like a freight train the whole there. You probably have more personal experience than I, and I won't dispute it. But I've driven a C4 corvette to 170mph and it took forever to get there once I got into 4th gear, yes it was an auto without the performance axle.

The correlation with the viper kill is not considering the first 10seconds of WOT anyways. They go at it for almost 18secs, and if they are 10sec cars then they've got to be going well over 120 in the traps. If you stay in it for another 8sec how fast do you think you're going? 140mph? more? That's what I was getting at. I'm also guessing that the Viper holds it's own against the Porsche until it runs out of steam. (I've been perfectly clear when I make assumptions, this is one of them)

Originally posted by Raven



It all depends upon what kind of "black" car you're talking about, what kind of race (1/4 versus a top end run), and what it's racing. A high 11 TR versus a TT AWD Porsche on the big end? From an 80 mph roll? Nope, I'll bet on the Porsche and I'll win that bet. From a stop in the quarter, I'll bet on the black.

I said to 155mph I'll take the mid 11sec GN. With a 28" tire, that's geared to the tooth to run that fast without a hitch, the drag will start to hurt real bad at about 135, but given an 80mph roll, I'll take the GN.



I guess these are the points that we'll disagree on forever. I'm not just BSing either, I'm an engineering student, I'm not just guessing and poking at numbers here. I've got a lot of analytical experience with this type of stuff. These are the types of problems that manufacturers look at when picking transmission ratios. (not whether or not a GN will beat a porsche on the 'big end' BUT will a truck with this powerband pull up this hill in second gear....blah....blah...blah) I don't want you to think I'm arguing for the sake of it, I want you to know that I actually believe this to be possible. Of course the power made to push the car to a 11.X is the big question, and if you wish to attack the original writer's credibility, then I have no arguement.

Originally posted by Raven


It should only discourage those that want to post something as equally fictitious. An honest-to-god-kill is one thing - a walk down fantasy lane presented as a true kill is another.

Is it really that bad to write and read fictiously? Either way I enjoy it.