After several nights of searching I can't find the information I am looking for. From a recent thread it was said that the Stage 1 blocks are known to crack between the freeze plugs. Would having a girdle installed eliminated this from happening? Was the cracking caused from pushing the block beyond its capable horsepower handling? I can't find much information on the Stage 1 blocks.
Stage 1 Block Questions
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turbodave231
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The early Stage 1 and Stage 2 blocks (same 016 raw casting) are known for cracking between the two freeze plugs. I run one of these s2 blocks and have not had the problem.
A girdle will not prevent this failure, The casting is just weak in this area. Later stage 2 blocks were changed (many times) and do not exhibit this problem.
If you have a S1 block and you are worried about cracking, send the block to me and I will test it extensively.........It may take a few years for me to finish the in-car testing, but I'll let you know how it goes!!:biggrin:
Dave
A girdle will not prevent this failure, The casting is just weak in this area. Later stage 2 blocks were changed (many times) and do not exhibit this problem.
If you have a S1 block and you are worried about cracking, send the block to me and I will test it extensively.........It may take a few years for me to finish the in-car testing, but I'll let you know how it goes!!:biggrin:
Dave
Lee Thompson
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crack
Looking @ a cross section of the earlier Stage I and II as compared to the later (85 casting) you will see that the later block is about 2 times as thick in the freeze plug area. I have an earlier Stage II (82 casting)that cracked on pass. side. Had it professionally repaired. Started leaking before the eng. got up to operating temp. To somewhat fix it I had some freeze plugs made the correct dia. to fit the hole (1/4 in. thick)--ground the crack out all the way through from freeze plug to plug. Wire welded it and have made some hard runs last year with no problem. Having said that I did notice some drops of antifreeze when I moved the car lasr week. Been stored since September. If interested go to Stage section and look up some pics I posted of the crack and welding. Not the best, but I'm not a welded.
Looking @ a cross section of the earlier Stage I and II as compared to the later (85 casting) you will see that the later block is about 2 times as thick in the freeze plug area. I have an earlier Stage II (82 casting)that cracked on pass. side. Had it professionally repaired. Started leaking before the eng. got up to operating temp. To somewhat fix it I had some freeze plugs made the correct dia. to fit the hole (1/4 in. thick)--ground the crack out all the way through from freeze plug to plug. Wire welded it and have made some hard runs last year with no problem. Having said that I did notice some drops of antifreeze when I moved the car lasr week. Been stored since September. If interested go to Stage section and look up some pics I posted of the crack and welding. Not the best, but I'm not a welded.
Anthony P
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the 016 casting # was for the 4.1L stage I or II block while the 012 casting # was for the 3.8L stage I or II block. the 012 came from the factory with provisions for 6 extra head bolts per cylinder bank (not machined) while the 016 had the extra bolt holes already machined into the block.
turbodave231
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The 012 casting is the Stage version of the 3.8 block. I don't beleive the 012 casting is any different than the 4.1 016 version in the freeze plug area.
Dave
Have you ever considered that the 016 blocks are siamese cylinders which
would tend to strenghten the core assembly? Also consider that probably
50% of the Stage 1 blocks we have sonic checked have a wall thickness of
less than .100 which would allow for more flexing
I guess I should have been a little clearer with my Stage 1 questions. I believe I remeber in a previous post someone mentioned 800hp is about as high as one would want to go with this block. I would assume that this is with steel caps, not the cast that come on the block? Why would this block be any better than a girdled 109? I understand the diffenence in Stage 1 and Stage 2 blocks. Trying to convince myself I want to build this virgin block. Wait.....Have someone build it for me.:biggrin: I have had it awhile. Just be sitting on it.
Russ Merritt
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Send you some pics Shane.
You might consider putting Hard Block in the cooling holes and filling it up just past the half way point on the freeze out plugs (you need to have the block level). I have done this on my stage 1 but after it cracked and it stablized the cracked area. Hard block shoud be added before any machining of the block. You could also try to tap the freeze out plugs and use a screw in plug. This should add more strength to that area. I also like your idea of a girgle. If you decide to stay with the freeze out plugs then you should pin them (if you do a search you can get the information about this procedure).
Jeff
Jeff
turbodave231
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Dan,
It makes sense that siamese bores will make a stronger block than free standing bores. But the early 016 4.1 blocks (from what I've heard and read) exhibit the problem more frequently. I'm running an early S2 016 block and I've not had a cracking problem yet (but keeping my fingers crossed). The frequency of the problem may be related to the production numbers of the early blocks.
I don't have any experience with 3.8 012 blocks. I never owned or used one so I really don't have any experience to support my opinions and statements. But it also makes sense that the stage 1 012 version of the block might exhibit the problem even worse because of the free standing bores and thinner bores.
I've only seen one 012 stage 2 block. I would guess that this version of the block was the least popular and Buick didn't make too many.
Do you think Buick sonic tested blocks and sorted which ones were machined to Stage 2 specs? That might explain why the Stage 1 blocks you have tested tend to be thin in the bores.
It sure would be nice to sit and talk to the Buick Engineers who did all the design and production work on these blocks. That would be good information for the archives.
Jeff,
I'm not sure how I'd approach fixing a block cracked in the freeze plug area. I hope I never have to deal with this problem. I'd probably have it welded (I work with some of the very best welders in the Detroit area) and fill the block with hardblock like you suggest. If the welded area re-cracks, the hardblock might prevent leaks by keeping the area dry.
Dave
It makes sense that siamese bores will make a stronger block than free standing bores. But the early 016 4.1 blocks (from what I've heard and read) exhibit the problem more frequently. I'm running an early S2 016 block and I've not had a cracking problem yet (but keeping my fingers crossed). The frequency of the problem may be related to the production numbers of the early blocks.
I don't have any experience with 3.8 012 blocks. I never owned or used one so I really don't have any experience to support my opinions and statements. But it also makes sense that the stage 1 012 version of the block might exhibit the problem even worse because of the free standing bores and thinner bores.
I've only seen one 012 stage 2 block. I would guess that this version of the block was the least popular and Buick didn't make too many.
Do you think Buick sonic tested blocks and sorted which ones were machined to Stage 2 specs? That might explain why the Stage 1 blocks you have tested tend to be thin in the bores.
It sure would be nice to sit and talk to the Buick Engineers who did all the design and production work on these blocks. That would be good information for the archives.
Jeff,
I'm not sure how I'd approach fixing a block cracked in the freeze plug area. I hope I never have to deal with this problem. I'd probably have it welded (I work with some of the very best welders in the Detroit area) and fill the block with hardblock like you suggest. If the welded area re-cracks, the hardblock might prevent leaks by keeping the area dry.
Dave
turbodave231
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The casting number on the side of the block will end in 016 or 012 for a stage 1 block.
Dave
Dave
