Swaybar size confusion

terryk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2001
I measured my front and rear bars and got:

Front 1.24"
Rear .820"

1.24 is close to 1-1/4" but less than the stock size quoted by people as 1-7/16 for the front.

.820 is close to 13/16" but smaller than the quoted 7/8" rear.

If I account for any corrosion, then they would technically be smaller still.

It's an 86 TT. The previous owner said be put a larger bar in the back. That doesn't make sense.

TK
 
Measuring sway bars can get a little confusing. If you are measuring the bar in the middle on its straighest section it appears you have the stock bars on your car. The front stock one is 32mm and the rear is 22mm which converts over to 1.25 and .860.

Eric Fisher
 
Sounds good. I measured them in the middle of a flat run (no bends). The suspension is FE2 on my Regal.

Ok, so I know they are stock bars. I need to upgrade both. I don't car about drap racing, only handling.
 
Go to the junk yard dogs section and look up jounce bars, triangle bars, sway bars, etc. F-body hollow 36mm front sway bar is a great upgrade.

I use a 34mm crescent wrence to measure my bars.

Here is a metric to inch conversion web page:
http://www.wihatools.com/conversion.htm
 
The thought the 36m hollow bars were less stiff than the smaller stock solid bars.
 
The hollow bars do carry less torsional loads than the solid bars. The experts figure a 36mm hollow has the same rate as a 34mm solid. The reason you see 36mm hollows out there is because they are cheaper to make than a solid bar. Eric
 
So what would be the correct next step up from the stock bars (front and back)?

Terry
 
Go to the junk yard dogs section and look up jounce bars, triangle bars, sway bars, etc.

F-body hollow 36mm front sway bar is a great upgrade from the stock 32mm hollow bar for the front, along with the "jounce" bars.

ATR anti-sway bar and boxed upper and lower control arms for the back.
 
Hey, you just cut pasted that from above. Cheater! ;)

Ok, I already have the triangle braces in the front and rear seat braces. Also, Eibach springs. I do need to get the front frame to frame brace from Kirban. The GP brace hits the intercooler.

So how does boxing in the rear upper and lower control arms improve the handling? I know everyone does it for straight line but I heard the uppers need to twist or it overloads the bushings in turns.

Finally, the stock 32mm front bar is hollow?
 
No, the front stock swaybar is solid.
 
That's what I thought. I certainly didn't appear hollow or light when I had it off for the suspension rebuild.

TK
 
Originally posted by terryk
....So how does boxing in the rear upper and lower control arms improve the handling? I know everyone does it for straight line but I heard the uppers need to twist or it overloads the bushings in turns.
By boxing the controls arms you make them stiffer. Stiffer means they will NOT flex and will be more predictable under loads. In the stock configuration, they will flex and twist and in extreme conditions they will just collapse.

The four link rear that we have has a bind in it the way it sits. This is corrected by going to a Heim joint or spherical bearing where the control arm meet the body. This will allow the rear to freely move or articulate.


Originally posted by terryk

Finally, the stock 32mm front bar is hollow?
No.



If you want the car to handle better you don't want to get a bigger front bar. The will make the car understeer even more than it does now. IMHO, leave the stock front bar and get a larger rear bar. :)
 
On dry pavement, the car is pretty balanced until you hit the limit then the rear starts to come around. I can push it pretty dang hard before starts to oversteer but once it starts, it's going sideways.

I had a person cut me off a few months back and I had to swerve to keep from hitting her (nothing sexist there. Guys do it more frankly). The car oversteered severely and when I dialing in some steering to bring it around, it just went the other way. I found myself sliding sideways down the road at 70 MPH and each time I went to staighten it out, it just reversed sides. It took about 8 of those swings to get it under control (less oversteer on each cycle). I call that oversteer. It didn't plow, it swung. What is interesting is the car stayed perfectly flat. No hint of leaning. But sliding along at 70 MPH perpendicular to the road does induce a high pucker factor.

Given that, it would imply the rear bar is already too large. I would think I would need to either increase the front bar or reduce the rear bar.

The tires are 245/60-15 Dunlops all around. They might be a bit hard from age (3 years old) and new tires would likely improve that.

On wet pavement, any significant throttle induces oversteer but that's different facts from dry pavement performance. I just stay out of the throttle on wet pavement.

I think I should put new tires on it and retest it. The tires could be skewing the handling more than normal.

After that, I can certainly swap to spherical bearings in the rear if necessary. I seriously doubt I will push the car to point where the arms will fold. I'm not *that* into road racing. I have no desire to drag race it either.
 
Don't confuse a severe slip angle for oversteer. If you input a ton of steering the car will come around on you no matter how it's set up.:) Often times a car that has understeer will have oversteer upon exit. This occurs when the driver needs to input more steering into the turn to get the car to corner. At this point there is too much steering input so when the fronts finally grab, the back comes around. ;)

In the situation you described would not indicate that the car is either tight or loose:)

I can only tell you what I have found after a couple of years of racing:)

Good luck:cool:
 
I respect your observation and get your point.

When it's dry, the car corners very nice. When I had the "event", I was actually quite surprised how well the car dealt with the loose nut behind the wheel. Once I pulled the upholstery out of my butt, I decided I wanted to understand what is happening.

It sounds like I might be in better shape than I thought. I'm mixing two different situations.
 
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