Switch in the Ashtray Hole. Ideas?

[HighMileage]

My next project is putting a switch for my fuel pump in the ashtray hole.

I'm going to eliminate the unpredictability of relays triggering relays via ECM signal triggering another relay via oil pressure switch or whatever.

I want to take my Hotwire to the ashtray where a beefy USA Made switch will reside.

***YES,I was just looking at Square D household breakers at Lowes and how they seem like they would fit nicely in the ashtray hole!

I'll solder-in a jumper to bypass the Hotwire relay back near the tank,too.

Summary: Hotwire...to heavy switch in the ashtray...then straight to pump. No cheap,lighted Chinese toggles,please.

Any input appreciated.

 

[earlbrown]

Here's my input....

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!! A quality relay like a Bosch or a P&B will last for decades with no problem. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here ESP when it means running such a high power wire thought a metal bulkhead twice.

 

[davelostmissing]

The domestic breaker may not even have a DC rating-check what it is, its not the AC rating.

 

[Buick Mark]

X2 the stock set up works.

 

[HighMileage]

But the relays and extra connections to worry about..

I've read on here how the Hotwire relay can take on water,also. Afterall,it is in a bad spot.

EarlBrown.. You point is well taken. One thing that helps is that I've got two good-sized holes in the firewall near the brake pedal thanks to the prev owner installing a Chapman alarm. (Which is now gone)

A concern is the voltage drop from the extra 12ft or so of wire.

I bought a Square D 30A single pole breaker for $4 at Lowes.

It sure looks like it will fit in that hole nicely! ...and I found a thick-enough piece of sheet aluminum next to my workbench. 1/8th,maybe. Sturdy.

Somebody stop me!!

 

[earlbrown]

The relay that takes on water is the fan delay relay. It's not a normal relay it's full of other electronics and poorly sealed.

A conventional relay is nothing but an electromagnet and a set of points. If you're that worried about it, get a short piece of wire with two 1/4" blade connectors on the end and put it in the ashtray. When your fuel pump relay fails, pop the jumper in the relay socket and drive to the relay store.

If the idea of a quality relay on the pump bothers you, try not to think about all the others that are even more important.

 

[HighMileage]

The relay that takes on water is the fan delay relay. It's not a normal relay it's full of other electronics and poorly sealed.

A conventional relay is nothing but an electromagnet and a set of points. If you're that worried about it, get a short piece of wire with two 1/4" blade connectors on the end and put it in the ashtray. When your fuel pump relay fails, pop the jumper in the relay socket and drive to the relay store.

If the idea of a quality relay on the pump bothers you, try not to think about all the others that are even more important.

The relay I was referring to was the Hotwire relay under the rear bumper. All those electromagnets and wiring going to the relays..

I'm just trying to prevent things from happening by simplifying.

We will see.

Thanks for your input,Earlbrown!

 

[earlbrown]

A standard heavy gauge wire with a single relay is really the most simplistic way of powering the pump.


Get a standard 5 pole relay and pop the cover off. It might put your mind at ease to see just how simplistic a switch it really is. (and while you're looking at the 'small' contacts, keep in mind a plain ole toggle switch will have the same size contacts)

 

[davelostmissing]

A hotwire setup is the shortest route with high currents.

Now with the breaker you will need a relay and buzzer to remind you you forgot to switch off the breaker.

 

[rmar]

You could put one of these in the console......just a thought.

 

[TR Custom Parts]

You could put one of these in the console......just a thought.

 

[Fatpig]

You could put one of these in the console......just a thought.

Lol

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[HighMileage]

You could put one of these in the console......just a thought.

Hmmm... Forget the ashtray. Yeah,that will go in the console! Just lift the lid and throw that arm. You know there won't be any bad connections with burnt,corroded,etc relay points with that.

I'll have to measure my console. Thanks for putting a ruler next to it.

 

[HighMileage]

A standard heavy gauge wire with a single relay is really the most simplistic way of powering the pump.


Get a standard 5 pole relay and pop the cover off. It might put your mind at ease to see just how simplistic a switch it really is. (and while you're looking at the 'small' contacts, keep in mind a plain ole toggle switch will have the same size contacts)

I agree,earlbrown. But,there is much more to it than that.

We have a circuit in the ECM that controls the prime. That could fail.
The oil pressure switch. That could fail.
Fuel pump relay... and the aformentioned hotwire relay,all the wiring and connections. Blaaaah!

I did look at a regular 20amp rocker switch in Radio Shack. Made in China. No thanks. It didn't even feel right.

What I'm getting at here is that I want to make sure I am getting full power from the alt to the pump without any complication or dealing with any corroded,burnt,etc relay points and wiring. I want to have reliable,simple,full power to my pump. We know how important that is.

...and in regards to me forgetting that the pump is on when I get to where I'm going.. I'm a Commercial pilot who has been flying since '97. I'll have a Shut-down Checklist for my GN! I'm in the habit of shutting down everything electrical.

I think you guys are gonna like my brainstorm. Yes,everything will be soldered/heat-shrinked.

Hey,I can always switch it back.

 

[czimpel]

Household breakers are not meant for being switched on and off all of the time.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[salvageV6]

And you need a special breaker that has a DC rating printed on it, they are out there.

DC requires the full load current to be switched which creates a lot of arcing hence the picture of the knife switch just may be the best way to go for manually switching DC power, although I'm sure it was meant as a joke, AC has zero crossings which minimizes arcing.

NTE makes a nice 70A relay with beefy contacts made to switch DC loads, use it with that radio shack toggle.

Or use something like a decent battery shutoff switch made to switch high current DC voltages.

Switch contacts will corrode and degrade just as easily and perhaps more so than a properly designed relay contact.

That will drop the voltage to the pump as it degrades.

 

[HighMileage]

Thanks for the advice,salvageV6. The battery shutoff sounds like a great idea.

One criteria with this project is: It has to fit under the ashtray lid.

I was all ready to use the household breaker,too. It would only be used as a switch,as my hotwire is fused at the alternator. I figured that if it's good enough to transfer power to a 30A service,it's good enough for my fuel pump. Overkill....I thought. I like overkill!

..and I figured it would last,too. There is a local bar that uses a breaker as their light switch in their walk-in cooler. It has been there for years and is used many,many times per day.

Back to the drawing board...

 

[earlbrown]

It's your car. Might want to make room for some cooling fan switches too. If those relays were to fail you lose the engine. That's way worse than losing the fuel pump.

or you could use solder two insulated connectors on the bottom of the relay socket. That way when your pump relay fails in 40 years your can just hook the two wires together and drive home.


or just toss a realy in the ash tray and swap it out on the side of the road.


don't get me wrong, I love Rube Goldberging the hell out of stuff, but when it comes to my car getting me home, I prefer the KISS rule.

 

[fast86gn]

You could put one of these in the console......just a thought.

LMAO

 

[HighMileage]

It's your car. Might want to make room for some cooling fan switches too. If those relays were to fail you lose the engine. That's way worse than losing the fuel pump.

or you could use solder two insulated connectors on the bottom of the relay socket. That way when your pump relay fails in 40 years your can just hook the two wires together and drive home.


or just toss a realy in the ash tray and swap it out on the side of the road.


don't get me wrong, I love Rube Goldberging the hell out of stuff, but when it comes to my car getting me home, I prefer the KISS rule.

The fuel pump switch idea was supposed to be keeping it simple. But now the battery cut-off switch trumped the household breaker.

I thought about a fan switch. I actually have them on my other cars. Some even have "pusher" fans that I installed. Colder AC with them,also.

But as far as a fan switch on the GN,I'll just keep monitoring the H20 temp. The chip commands the fan at a lower temp.

I still like that knife switch in the console idea! If there is a mini one out there,I'm all over it!