Synthetic oil?

[CTX-SLPR]

Or maybe a better analogy is the gold that is plated on RCA jacks on A/V equipment. Platinum is a "finer" metal but does anybody believe that plating RCA jacks with platinum will make any difference over any other metal?

RCA jacks are gold plated because gold does not oxidize anywhere close to as rapidly as most metals. Gold is actually a really horrible conductor comparatively, you put a thin layer of gold cladding on so that you connectors don't develop intermittant connections due to corrosion, which electrical components are more seceptable to.
As for synthetic, it won't save your engine and it has been known to cause leaks in older engines where the gaskets are older. The conventional, dino, oil is really inconsistant in the molecular make up of it, its close when you are talking 40 carbon long chains and you get 37-45 mostly but there is stuff in there thats like 60 carbons long that slips through the process. That stuff kind of acts like stop leak by getting stuck in all the little leak holes and starts causing the shorter stuff to pile up and eventually plugs the hole. Synthetics are far more uniform and as such don't form those nice little plugs as quickly, hense the fact they leak for awhile. Older engines have also had the tollerances loosen up through wear and that causes the finer synthetic to leak through there aswell. If you have an older OEM motor, stick with dino or go for a blend. If you build a new motor, break it in on straight weight, wear it in on dino, and run it on synthetic. 4L60E's are not known as the most durable trannies anyway and its likely that something was on the large end of tollerances and your synthetic oil just magnified that problem. I know Ford runs nothing but synthetic from the factory in its trannies so I'd be inclined to say its more your trannys not the fluids fault for the slipping.

Just my mad musings,

 

[RobsIron]

You're saying synthetics are a better lubricant that result in "LESS FRICTION". Can you actually prove this or did you simply watch TV then sleep in a Holiday Inn Express?

You're so witty today. You should be a comedian rather than a oil expert.

I never posted anything about TV. You must be the TV guru to use the Holiday Inn commercial.
I said Articles and Tests. Preferably by reputable engine builders not associated with the oil companies. So, Whoever is reading and typing responses for you should explain that.
I guess I'll have to get real basic here. Do a search. Most complain about leaks because its so slick. More slick = less friction.

If Mobile 1 is so sh!tty..why do you use it?

 

[TurboGN]

You're so witty today. You should be a comedian rather than a oil expert.

I never posted anything about TV. You must be the TV guru to use the Holiday Inn commercial.
I said Articles and Tests. Preferably by reputable engine builders not associated with the oil companies. So, Whoever is reading and typing responses for you should explain that.
I guess I'll have to get real basic here. Do a search. Most complain about leaks because its so slick. More slick = less friction.

If Mobile 1 is so sh!tty..why do you use it?

Actually, I've searched, researched and unbuttoned the bottom end of several TB engines. I've compared coolant temperatures, oil pressures, performance and bearing wear, with and without the SO, and found no difference. I've seen oil pressures diminish with both. I like the way the SO keeps the valve train, turbo feed and drain lines and intake clean but I've heard it does not combust, due to a higher flash point, and can lead to premature HG failure (hence the PCV catch can). I'm not saying that is a fact but I have spoken to reputable engine builders who aren't sold on the commercialized hype either. I'm not a guru and don't claim to be one but I base my decisions on my own experiences. I have to admit that I've used it both straight and blended and will continue to. I don't expect you to take what I've said to heart and I apologize for trying to be cute at your expense.

 

[RobsIron]

You are Good..Ya Killin' me with Kindess

No need to apologize..Nothing wrong with a little Banter between Gearheads.

This debate has been going on forever and I don't think you or I could give a well enough arguement to sway ones thinking one way or another.
To each his own.

I will say back in the 80s I ran staight 50 weight Kendall in my 69 Chevelle SS with no problems...Man I beat the Hell out of that car.....

 

[Jerryl]

Stupid questions
Anyone ever see the test with the Briggs motor and Slick 50? The one where they drain all the oil and kept the motor running?
There was also a "bearing load tests" that was published a while back with Slick 50?

No, I am NOT or in "NO WAY" suggesting I am interested in running Slick 50, neither am I advocating anyone should.
Just wondering if the synthetic engineering has come to a point where this stuff is actually a real advantage. Kinda like "Bio-Engineering"
I know that Smokey Yunick recommended synthetic oils back in the days.
Yes, formulas may have changed, but he did recommend it.

NOT taking any sides here (I do not watch much TV and did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn for a while ), but .........
Why do people say that one should never assemble or break in a new motor with synthetics, as your rings will never seal? I know Corvette's are delivered with synthetics, but is it because the surface finishes and tolerances are much better with today's machinees and technology and there is therefore "minimal break-in required"?
And why do some motorcycle clutches start to slip RIGHT after pouring in synthetic oil and quit slipping after going back to Dino oil?

Back in the day when I was riding 2 strokes, I know for a fact that the Synthetic lube was better. I tested on/off for a while and realized it was the way as the engine would respond much better with synthetics. Maybe a function of increases vaporization in the mixture?

There MUST be someone on ANY of the boards who either "was" or "knows someone" working at one of the large research centers who can lay the smack down on this issue. Another way is to watch someone who works at one of these research centers, who in fact HAS to BUY their own oil, and see what they use.

Personally I don't care which oil is better, just want the real smackdown truth. After that, I maybe I'll care ............

 

[RobsIron]

Hey Jerryl I run Duralube in my CR and YZ 250s at 50 to 1. There isn't any Dino with that high of a mix ratio.

Two years ago my Harley EVO lost all the oil in the tank and I ran it all night(it was a cool summer night) not knowing it was empty. The only oil was what was in the bottom end which is just a few ounces and I made it home and discovered the situation.
I had to resleeve the cylinders and replace the pistons and rings. Thats it. I'm still running the same bottom end.
I 'believe' if I had conventional oil in it..I would have ended up on the side of the road. JMO.

 

[soundguy]

Well to add my experience to this, I had to have the engine replaced in my 98 F-150 couple years ago. I ran synthetic in it for the last 3 years I had it, mostly cause I never changed the oil but maybe avg 8k miles. Synthetic will retain its integrity much longer than dino and also provides far greater lubrication. HOWEVER, as I had discovered after the engine replacement and asked around to learn what happened inside the engine to cause failure, I learned that though synthetic lubricates better, it is missing the chemical makeup that dino posses's that keeps rings and seals from drying out. It isnt so much that synthetic seeps past small leaks sooner than dino, its that your seals dry out and dont seal up like they should, allowing the oil to pass by little at a time.

 

[RobsIron]

As you all know I run synthetics, but I do use the conventional Lucas oil treatment and not the Syn version.

Probably the best oil out there is the Semi-Syn. Best of both worlds..cheaper too!

Oh Yeah, Don't forget to run a little Marvel Mystery oil in your tank when running Race Fuel.

 

[ACME RACING]

The problem with todays oils is the lack of EP additives (extreme pressure). EP additives have been largely removed in all SL rated oils because they have a tendency to lightly coat the internals of a catalytic converter. The EPA stepped in and now they have been removed fromt he OTC oils you can buy at autozone, orielly's etc. The only oil I know of that you can buy that still has EP additives is Valvoline Racing Oil. Not the one on the counter but one specifically made for racing and has no API service rating on it. It also says on the bottle "Not Street Legal" while the other Valvoline Racing Oil is. You can order it from Autozone or Napa or Orielly's or Summit, but it is typically not on the shelf. Another way to add the EP additives to your oil is to buy a bottle of GM's EOS (engine oil supplement). This can be added to conventional or Synthetic and provides the missing ingredients (zinc & phosphate components) to provide the extreme pressure protection to the bearings & cam. This is what is killing our camshaft lobes too. All of todays modern engine use roller cams thus do not have the demand for the extreme pressure additives in the oil. Our flat tappet cams rely on a strong film of oil to stay alive. I got alot of this info from the GS magazines. They did several articles about this a while back.

There's oil sold today that meet the SL API rating and have more Zinc and Phosphorus than ILSAC rated oils do. I use Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5-40w and it has all the "extra" Zinc you need. It's a Diesel and Gasoline oil that is widely used in trucks and cars, especially in Europe.
When the ILSAC rating came out a few years ago it reduced the Zinc and Phosphorus in gasoline engines, but oils with no ILSAC rating still have the same or more EP additives as before the ILSAC rating. All engine oils have Zinc and Phosph. in it, just a lower amount in ILSAC oils, about .11 vs .16-.18 percent on non ILSAC rated oil.
Diesels need more Zinc and Phosphorus since they run ALWAYS hot, that's why I use it in my T-Type. It actually made my engine quieter !!! I think the Zinc coated parts helped... And Rotella T Synthetic and non-Synthetic Rotella T is sold at Wally-Mart..


Below is some Rotella info:


http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/s...er=1757&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1


http://www.rotella.com/products/rotella_t_synthetic.html


http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=81

(Discusses Phosphorus)

 

[noslo6]

There's oil sold today that meet the SL API rating and have more Zinc and Phosphorus than ILSAC rated oils do. I use Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5-40w and it has all the "extra" Zinc you need. It's a Diesel and Gasoline oil that is widely used in trucks and cars, especially in Europe.
When the ILSAC rating came out a few years ago it reduced the Zinc and Phosphorus in gasoline engines, but oils with no ILSAC rating still have the same or more EP additives as before the ILSAC rating. All engine oils have Zinc and Phosph. in it, just a lower amount in ILSAC oils, about .11 vs .16-.18 percent on non ILSAC rated oil.
Diesels need more Zinc and Phosphorus since they run ALWAYS hot, that's why I use it in my T-Type. It actually made my engine quieter !!! I think the Zinc coated parts helped... And Rotella T Synthetic and non-Synthetic Rotella T is sold at Wally-Mart..


Below is some Rotella info:


http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/s...er=1757&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1


http://www.rotella.com/products/rotella_t_synthetic.html


http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=81

(Discusses Phosphorus)

[In my best Johnny Carson voice]-"I did not know that"
Great info ACME!!

 

[Jerryl]

There is some GREAT writing on actual testing of Conventional vs Synthetic oil in "Power Secrets" by "Smokey Yunick"
Not sure how to attach a file to this post to share...........

 

[ACME RACING]

[In my best Johnny Carson voice]-"I did not know that"
Great info ACME!!

I didn't know about Rotella either until I was at a local drag strip and asked a guy who had a gallon next to his car why he used it, he said that it made his engine quieter and last longer, (raced every weekend)
So I went and bought some Rotella and never looked back...It made my motorcycle shift so much easier since I put it in my bike, 84 GS1150 Suzuki...