syty drivetrain?

[all4gss]

I've been having troubles surfing syty.net and am unable to join it at the moment due to the work they're doin over there. I thought i'd post here and see if you syty guys could help me out.

Looking to make a syty clone. Not original i know. Mainly what i'm interested in knowing at the moment is what differentials, are used? I've heard that the syty suspension is basically stock 4X4 suspension that's been lowered. So does it have stock 4X4 front and rear differentials? And how did they lower the 4x4?

I've also thought about using a manual transfer case rather than the hydrostatic one on the syty so that it's optional awd. Is that a bad idea? I figured the hydrostatic transfer-case must eat up a bit of power..

I've also heard that people spend money to upgrade the syty, so what/where do they buy suspension pieces?

I've got an excellent sonoma body. Would i be better off getting a 4X4 frame and working on that, then swapping the bodies?

I would just buy a wrecked syty, but my sonoma isn't 4wd and since the wrecked syty prolly will have some frame damage i'd rather get a separate 4x4 frame.


okay that was alot of stuff, if you've got time to reply i'd certainly appreciate it.

thanks.

Keith Grant

 

[Sylcone#1992]

To tell you the truth you would be better off just buying a true Syclone or Typhoon. By the time you get a wiring harness, ecm, motor, tranny.....ect ect. ... You will have spent more money than the real deal costs. Some SyTy's are going pretty cheap IMO. Save yourself a headache and one together, you will have your work cut out either way.


Good Luck

Tim Hoppenworth
Proud owner of Syclone#1992

 

[all4gss]

well i had planned to put a gn/tr engine in it. that's why i wanted to just get a frame and get started. part of the fun is building it and saying you did it yourself. i got the project truck for 200 bucks and it holds sentimental value to my fiance and i'd like an extended cab. i'm almost certain i can put together an awd turbo buick package for less than 10K.

thanks.

keith

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by all4gss
I've been having troubles surfing syty.net and am unable to join it at the moment due to the work they're doin over there. I thought i'd post here and see if you syty guys could help me out.

Looking to make a syty clone. Not original i know. Mainly what i'm interested in knowing at the moment is what differentials, are used? I've heard that the syty suspension is basically stock 4X4 suspension that's been lowered. So does it have stock 4X4 front and rear differentials? And how did they lower the 4x4?

Sytys are basically 4wd s10 trucks (Sy) or 4wd blazers (ty) as far as suspension and frame. The rear diff are 7 5/8" on sytys where as most reg s trucks have the 7 1/2" rear. You can drop the front of a 4wd s truck by cranking down the torsion bars and the rear springs are somewhat de-arched.

I've also thought about using a manual transfer case rather than the hydrostatic one on the syty so that it's optional awd. Is that a bad idea? I figured the hydrostatic transfer-case must eat up a bit of power..

You can use a regular shiftable transfer case if you want.. I know of one Ty owner that switched to one but he has what Id call an all out build thats looking for every last ounce of ET/MPH. The stock syty doesnt eat up hundreds of hp if thats what youre thinking though.

I've also heard that people spend money to upgrade the syty, so what/where do they buy suspension pieces?

Im not really gonna get into this subject cause its a HUGE sore spot for some ppl but yes there are ppl that make coil over suspensions for our trucks. There just arent too many happy owners of it from what Ive seen though.

I've got an excellent sonoma body. Would i be better off getting a 4X4 frame and working on that, then swapping the bodies?

IMO thats up to you. If you feel like making a syty from the frame up and have the money to do it then knock yourself out. Im a HUGE DIYer and I wouldnt attempt it. Actually there are a few sytys in the for sale section of the board (if its working) that are under your price range. Thats what Id start with.

I would just buy a wrecked syty, but my sonoma isn't 4wd and since the wrecked syty prolly will have some frame damage i'd rather get a separate 4x4 frame.

FYI the 2wd and 4wd frames are COMPLETELY different from the fire wall foreward. To make a 2wd a 4wd you'd have to cut the front of the frame off and weld on a 4wd front section. WAY too much work IMO. Id rather start with a real syty or at least a 4wd s truck. But then again thats all up to you IMO because if you WANT to make a 2wd into a 4wd then it can be done with enough money and patients.

I dunno what the big deal is with frame damage is either as any competent body shop can straighten an s truck frame. Theyre a piece of cake to straighten.

 

[all4gss]

myclone,

thanks a tone for the help. I guess i could get a wrecked syty and sell off the parts i dont need. But i want an extended cab. are the frames different from extended/regular cab? i'm new to the s-series trucks.

Thanks.

Keith Grant

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by all4gss
myclone,

thanks a tone for the help. I guess i could get a wrecked syty and sell off the parts i dont need. But i want an extended cab. are the frames different from extended/regular cab? i'm new to the s-series trucks.

Thanks.

Keith Grant

The frames are different but it is only in how/where the rear cab mounts/front box mounts are attached to the frame. Ive messed with S trucks for years and sized up various projects (extended cab dually s 10, 4 door dually s 10, and other variations of s truck projects) and can tell you that youre better off starting with an 4x4 extended cab frame unless you have excellent fabbing skills and a well equipped shop.

The extended cab frames are the same as far as bolt on stuff like suspension and drive train components so putting a syty drive train in an extended cab would be a bolt in. The only thing youd have to procure would be a rear drive shaft for a long bed s 10 (they didnt make extended cab long bed s trucks so the extra cab length is is made up for by all of them being a short bed).

Im guessing you are gonna use the truck for utilitarian purposes (read: as a truck) since you want an ext cab so be aware that if you procure a real deal syty drive line that the trans will NOT survive towing anything larger than a jet ski or dirt bike (even thats marginal). The trans hits WAY too hard and internal parts breakage will happen even at light throttle with any weight behind it not to mention if you get into boost while towing something. Instant "boom" from the trans will result.

Also, I dont know what youre goals are for the project but keep in mind the following:

*Wheel selection is minimal at best and what is available is expensive unless you like stock non syty 4wd s truck wheels.
*Unless its properly built (and only a hand full of ppl can do it) the 700 will fail at some point (not if but when).
*Detonate a syty 4.3 more than minimally you will break the engine (Buicks can squirt out head gaskets, sytys cant).
*The trucks MUST have CONSTANT maint to keep in tune (if you want a driver that requires minimal tinkering ditch the project now IMO).
*Forget aftermarket parts sources except for a select few and most of them arent cheap (read: crazy expensive!!!).
*Forget finding cheap used interrior or drive train parts as ANYTHING syty specific will cost 5 to easily 10 times what youd expect.
*Did I mention the 700 will puke its guts out in no time if beaten on and may only last slightly longer if you drive it like a granny?


Lastly, Im a die hard syty guy and I like to take the less travelled path when it comes to my projects... If I was doing a turbo V6 swap into anything Id do the LC2/200R4 before the syty thing (Ive owned both TRs and Sytys). Granted the 200R4 trans would limit me to 2wd only unless I did a 700R4/4L80E but in the long run it would be 1,000,000,000 times more enjoyable of a project during the build and later when I wanted to drive it.

 

[all4gss]

Thanks a whole lot for your post. Lots of helpful information in there. I have to expose my ignorance here and ask what an LC2/2004r conversion is? In your opinion is awd on the s-series trucks worth the trouble? I just thought it would be worth the extra handling characteristics to build an awd truck. I had heard that w/out awd you would never move anywhere, just spin your tires... maybe i can have my ex-gf sit in the bed of the truck?

the truck has a 2.8 v6 in it right now. i could easily swap in a 3.4 out of a camero and keep it a driver. but the 60degree guys are all excited talking about 300hp. i know you can build a buick v6 to 500hp without breaking a sweat (just burning some cash). Plus, to be honest the 60degree v6 just doesn't do it for me, with the valve covers off it makes me feel sorry for it, what a mess under there.


just more talk, again i appreciate your advice,

Keith

 

[broke1]

myclone were on the same page

 

[myclone]

LC2=Buick turbo V6
200R4=GN/TR overdrive trans.

As youve already learned a 2wd S truck (or any truck for that matter) will blow the rear tires off with big hp. Ive done a small block S10 or three before and traction is non existant with street tires and aggressive throttle. From a roll they are wicked but from a dig they are a PIA to hook up. Driving in the rain is a butt pinching the seat experience to say the least.

AWD will cure 99% of the wheel spin but once rolling you have what is basically an extra driveline that takes hp to turn plus all those extra parts to break. In all honesty its up to you to weigh the hassle vs benefits of going AWD in your project.

FWIW... The reason you will be stuck with a 2wd application if you go with a 200R4 is there is no way to cheaply bolt a transfer case to it. The 700 has a removable tail housing to which a stock 4x4 adaptor can be bolted which accepts a transfer case. The 200, on the other hand, is a one piece case from bellhousing to tail so you would need to have the 200 case cut/welded/modified to accept the bolts for the transfer case. Thats assuming the splines on the output shaft will mate to an existing transfer case too. If not then youre looking at a custom output shaft for the 200 on top of everything else.

Heres my thoughts/opinion one what youre possibly getting yourself into:

S truck + LC2/200R4..
If budget is a concern you are limited to 2wd but after market parts and support are plentyful. Its been done before so there are ppl to help you on the net.

S truck + syty 4.3/700R4:
You can do 2wd or AWD if you like but the vehicle will be a CONSTANT maint PIA as the 4.3 will detonate by just looking at it wrong (read: you need to run a scan tool 100% of the time to watch for detonation/performance). If you go AWD the trans will break eventually. Thats a fact. This has been done also and there are ppl on the net to help you between the S truck board and the syty board.

S truck + small block/overdrive trans of your choice:
This one has been done the most so you wont be breaking new ground here. However, there are plenty of ppl that can help with any problems you run into. As we all know small block parts are as plentiful as sand on a beach and cheap to boot. Personally if I were doing another S truck project Id go with this combo instead of trying to go broke and/or crazy making the 4.3 live under abuse.

Wrecked syty + ext cab s truck:
Id much rather see any truck that is salvagable repaired instead of parted (as well as most sytyers would) but it doesnt happen all the time. This would be a bolt in deal but by the time you fixed all the factory turbo 4.3 flaws you prolly could have done the small block swap cheaper and ended up with a more reliable vehicle.

Just my .002 though as its your money/time..

 

[INEEDAGN]

another option

If you HAVE to have a Buick 3.8 and you HAVE to have 4wd or AWD you could put in a TH350 with a Buick bellhousing and using a neat little adapter/spacer (we use the ones made by techpack/fitzall) and a custom length (chopped off) output shaft you could put a stock or for that matter almost any transfer case behind it. The t-case would stay in the stock location so you could use all the stock stuff like driveshafts, crossmember, etc. The advantages are numerous: cheap, reliable, and easy (any competent tranny shop could do it). There's only one real disadvantage: no overdrive. I don't know your plans for the use of the truck but if it's not gonna see that many miles then no OD is not that big of a deal; If it's your 75 mile a day commuter, then it is a big deal. Also there are companies out there that make bellhousing adapters so you could use a 700 with an LC2, but I'm uncomfortable with using one because if it isn't perfectly aligned it will eat the bushings out of the pump and probably ruin your converter in no time flat. The body/chassis is up to you but if it were me I'd start with an x-cab 4x4 frame and use the body off the one you've got if it's in nice shape. You could use the stock transfer case that comes with the chassis or if you want AWD the sy/ty transfer case happens to be the same one used in the AWD astro van and I think the Oldsmobile Bravada uses it too.

Just my .02 cents and something else for you to think about.

bob

 

[myclone]

Re: another option

Originally posted by INEEDAGN
If you HAVE to have a Buick 3.8 and you HAVE to have 4wd or AWD you could put in a TH350 with a Buick bellhousing and using a neat little adapter/spacer (we use the ones made by techpack/fitzall) and a custom length (chopped off) output shaft you could put a stock or for that matter almost any transfer case behind it. The t-case would stay in the stock location so you could use all the stock stuff like driveshafts, crossmember, etc. The advantages are numerous: cheap, reliable, and easy (any competent tranny shop could do it). There's only one real disadvantage: no overdrive. I don't know your plans for the use of the truck but if it's not gonna see that many miles then no OD is not that big of a deal; If it's your 75 mile a day commuter, then it is a big deal. Also there are companies out there that make bellhousing adapters so you could use a 700 with an LC2, but I'm uncomfortable with using one because if it isn't perfectly aligned it will eat the bushings out of the pump and probably ruin your converter in no time flat. The body/chassis is up to you but if it were me I'd start with an x-cab 4x4 frame and use the body off the one you've got if it's in nice shape. You could use the stock transfer case that comes with the chassis or if you want AWD the sy/ty transfer case happens to be the same one used in the AWD astro van and I think the Oldsmobile Bravada uses it too.

Just my .02 cents and something else for you to think about.

bob

Bob has some good points there as I was taking for granted you wanted to stick with an OD trans. A TH350 is a cheap and durable alternative but as he mentioned gas milage will drop considerably.

He is also correct on the AWD astro van/Bravada transfer case being the same unit as the syty. There is only one small difference to keep in mind which is the Typhoon xfer case has a larger ouput shaft so if you end up with a ty case you'll need the correct yoke put on the drive shaft.