TA-60 turbo, boost level, timing

[wordy1]

I am using a TA-60 turbo with Eric's TurboTweak street chip,. I ran approx 100 octane at 18 lbs. of boost and was getting considerable knowck retard (3-4 degrees). I lowered the boost to 16 lbs. and had very little knock retard, about optimal O2 readings as well.. Is the boost level set when you buy an aftermarket chip and it automatically retards the timing when you go beyond it?.

I am hoping to eventually run this car on up to 25 lbs. of boost. What would be my best option? I was under the impression that I could run at higher boost levels with the aftermarket turbo and chip. but 16 lbs. is all I can muster. Its been disappointing to say the least.

 

[deadlois]

I am assuming you adjusted fuel pressure? A list of mods would help. BTW, as long as you are under 6 knock degrees you should be good, someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Larry Smith]

I agree, list of mods please.
You should be able to run more than 16 lbs of boost with 100 octane. I was able to run 16 lbs on 93 octane. I believe Eric's street chip is for 93 octane. Check with him. Concerning how much knock is o.k. Zero knock is o.k. I sometimes get a couple of degrees of knock on shift points but it goes away immediately. Anything more than 3 degrees of sustained knock and I let off. Still original head gaskets so far. By the way, 25 lbs of boost is attainable with zero knock with Razors alky and Erics Alky chip.

 

[flattype]

Im running 18 pounds boost with little to no knock (te44 009inj turbotweek street chip) I did add 5% WOT fuel though. This is on 93 octane. The only thing I have to watch out for is not stepping into it too hard in overdrive, I guess its common to get knock in OD if your on it.

 

[grocerygetter]

I run 18-19psi on 93 octane and a 20/18 deg street chip from Eric. see sig.
I've got the car set up with 5 gallons of c12 mixed with about 4 gallons of 93...22 psi, left the timing alone, no knock.

 

[wordy1]

will raising the fuel pressure help reduce knock? I have it set at 42 lbs.

 

[Larry Smith]

Wordy1,
As you can probably see from the posts so far, there is no single answer to your problem. Everyone's combo is different. You need to post your combo in order to get useful help. Raising and lowering fuel pressure will have different effects on different setups. Timing, fuel pressure, convertor stall, Good motor mounts, mass air sensor, etc. etc. are all variables to consider. Most are willing to help, but opinions are just shots in the dark without knowing all the facts.
Best regards,
Larry

 

[grocerygetter]

that's same fuel psi I'm at.
Just add some fuel at WOT.

 

[wordy1]

Guys, I am sorry for not giving you everything I know about the car, because well I don't know everything. Here is what I know.

The timing is set with Eric's Turbo Tweak chip (according to my DirectScan data it is 18.5 Degrees at WOT), The Fuel presure is currently set at 42 Lbs. using the Bosch fuel pressure regulator, 42. Lb. 009 injectors, XP+ fuel pump with hot wire kit, Voltage booster (confirmed to be at 14.5 V at WOT with DriectScan), As stated earlier it has a TA-60 turbo with adjustable wastegate, 3" Terry Houston Downpipe, stock exhaust manifolds, ATR stainless exhaust (2 1/2" I think), stall convertor is a reinforced D5 ~2400, Trans is the stock 200-4r with some upgrades, 3.42 posi 8.5" rear, motor mounts are new and do not need a tie-down (as instructed by the last owner), cam is a Comp cams 206/206 roller set-up (or so I was told), stock MAF, 160 Degree Thermostat, and a K & N air filter in place of stock air dam, if you guys need any more info, please let me know. Again, I apologize, and thank you so much for all your help.

 

[wordy1]

I am trying to find out more from the previous owner, what do I need to find out?? Thanks again guys!

 

[Larry Smith]

Start here... http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/maintenance/maintpage.html
Lots of useful info on this site. It may be something simple. TPS setting, spark plug, plug wire, MAF going bad, etc. Have a spark plug that is a different color than the rest? Eliminate the simple stuff first. Monitor your sensor numbers. Are the readings correct? Your setup sounds like a good and common combo. How are you determining your octane rating? Make sure you have good gas. Get some fresh, unleaded race fuel. I once chased a knock problem only to find out that my supposed race gas was junk. I noticed you said in your original post that you had very little knock @ 16lbs. of boost. You should easily be able to run 16lbs. @ 18 deg. timing with zero knock. Don't even try to turn up the boost until it will run @ 16lbs. with no knock. I have no expereience with your roller cam setup, but are you sure that you aren't getting "false" knock from some noise (velvetrain?) Finally, How long have you owned the car? Does the previous owner claim that it ran higher boost levels with no knock in the past?
Regards,

 

[JRNYMNDAVID]

Similar Set-up

will raising the fuel pressure help reduce knock? I have it set at 42 lbs.

I run#45PSI fuel pressure on 92 octane w/pt61 turbo& razor's alky control.
I also add 20% fuel @wot. -- using turbo tweak alky chip.[["0" knock ] anytime..even w/24# boost !

 

[wordy1]

Ok, how do I change the settings on my chip? I would like to lower the timing to about 16 degrees and add some fuel at WOT. I do not have A/C on the car, so I cannot change the settings that way. I did try the hitting the gas pedal 3 times method but the LV8 fails to change. The chip is probably about 2 years old so will these changes not work?

Also, I still have Red's 93 chip which I am confident gives more fuel than Eric's, not sure on the timing, but there's only one way to find out, whats the procedure in swapping chips? Thanks, Scott.

 

[bison]

You should pull your balancer and check to see if the interupter ring has moved at all causing advanced timing in all situations. You should be able to run 19-20 psi with no detonation at 18.5 degrees and 100 octane. There was a thread on hear about this recently. Check out the following:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194487&highlight=balancer+problems

 

[wordy1]

Thanks for the suggestion, this seems to be a great place to start. It "seems" like it is getting more timing than it really is so it does make a lot of sense. This drivetrain has been in the car since 1990, so its a definite possibility. The knocks I now get (at 16 psi with 93 octane) are only right after second gear and after second gear are gone completely with little or no retard. The knock retard can get up to 6 degrees at full load (LV8 at or near 255 not necessarily at WOT) after second gear and then normally goes away completely. A difference in 2-3 degrees at the timing ring on the balancer would definitely cause this condition. How difficult is it to remove the balancer before I begin checking the obvious causes?

BTW, how accurate are the Direct Scan horsepower and torque ratings? It is getting insane numbers at 3800 RPMs right after second gear and then they drop of considerably after the timing is taken out.

 

[Dabigguy]

Don't put too much faith in the DS horsepower readings. If you can adjust your fuel pressure at the regulator, do it that way instead of the chip. Try 43#, I think that is what they ask for with that chip to startwith.

 

[wordy1]

It is at 43 # currently.

I've been going through the old direct scan data from the previous owner and here's what I notice that really stands out.

In his data, The Boost PW is a nice smooth curve as the LV8 numbers go up and then reaches its peak and remains constant.. In the data I am getting, the Boost spikes up to max almost immediately as the TPS goes beyond 2.0 The graph shows a straight vertical line for the Boost PW curve as the LV8 number reaches 255. The turbo seems to spool up almost immediately to its full level based on this data./

When the LV8 reading goes from 240-255 is when I have consistently seen knocks and where the knock retard has begun. This is also exactly after second gear. And what seems to be the major inconsistensy between the previous owner's data and the data I am getting is that at or around a TPS of 2.00 V is when the car reaches its full load and is at full boost almost immediately. The TPS numbers were much higher when he got to full load and full boost ~ 4.00 V and up. Could this programmed into the chip to help with tubo lag, it makes sense as this was meant to be a streetable car and tricking the ECM into thinking that there is a load when there is not will allow for quicker spoolup (please guys correct me if I am wrong, I was a small block Chevy guy up until now )

I am going to wind up trying Red's chip eventually as all the runs that the previous owner made was with his chip.

BTW, would posting the Direct Scan data help you guys at all? If so, where can I send the files to? Thanks again..

 

[bison]

To remove the balancer bolt put a proof coil chain through one of the open slots on the balancer and wrap it around the front crossmember. Use a hook to connect the chain. Then use a 1 1/8 socket with a breaker bar. You can install it the same way with a torque wrench. I think its supposed to be 225 ft lbs. The breakaway torque is much higher than that though. The balancer is not a press fit like a chevy.

 

[wordy1]

Thanks, am trying Red's chip tomorrow, if no changes then I will pull it and see. . I really hope this is it. Even so, I'd really like to be able to change timing as needed for track use, I need to contact Eric about that right??

 

[Monte231SS]

Wordy, this doesn't happen to be the white/blue interior SS with bench seat. If so, i am the old owner that had it running the low 11 sec et's. All runs were made with Armstrong chips. Car always ran best with his chips. Shoot me an email if this is the car.