TA-60 turbo, boost level, timing

[murphster]

Copy your Directscan file and change the extension to .txt and add it to your post as an attachment. Looking over your DS file will help rule out some things. Could just be false knock on the shift. If your timing was off across the board, it would not go away as you describe.

Erics newer chips let you change the settings through the gas pedal since some people do not have AC like yourself. It is much better to change the settings through the chip than through adjusting the fuel pressure. Most people adjust the fuel pressure because their chips do not let them adjust the fuel settings and in the past that was the only way to do it.

I'm sure Eric will work with you if you have an older chip that needs AC and your AC doesn't work. In the mean time post your DS file to see if anyone can help.

 

[wordy1]

Well I think I can rule out it getting false knock in second gear as it knocked considerably with 18 psi and 100 octane in all gears. Now I get a knock count of 1-2 around the second gear shift at 16 psi.

Red's chip is going in, and I'll take some good recordings. I have no tracks to go to, so I'll have to take it out to the country.

 

[murphster]

A nice backroad run should do. Unless there is something else going on that you're not catching, changing the chip shouldn't make a difference. If its does make a difference, then you didn't really learn anything about what was causing the knock with the turbotweak chip. I would get some directscan recordings of both chips and post it up to see if someone can see something.

For reference, what does Erics chip say on it and what does the Red chip say on it? Seems like that is a very low timing chip for Eric, probably a street chip. Seeing the exact O2 numbers on a DS file would help see if they look ok. That would rule out your boost gauge being off by 4psi, for example.

I would also record a DS file at idle for reference. The more data you provide the better chance someone will see something out of whack.

 

[wordy1]

I'll take a recording at idle and then take it out to the country as is, and then change chips and do the same. I'll post them tonight..

 

[wordy1]

I hate my computer!!!

This is the 3rd time I am typing in this information as it has closed Internet Explorer on me 3 times in the middle of my post. I cannot post the Direct Scan files, I've tried and everytime IE crashes on me, not sure why. The short of it is this.

I tried Red's chip, it did not solve the problem, but it is not knocking at all in 2nd gear, so at least I can rule that out.

Eric's chip is much better overall. Better idle, better throttle response, quicker spool-up/ The only downfall is that the car gets nuts in second gear and is almost uncontrollable. The boost comes in all of a sudden and much sooner as compared to Red's which is more gradual.

The LV8 numbers are the biggest difference between the two, and only get to 255 when the car is nearly at WOT with Red's chip, it gets to 255 at mid throttle with Eric's and the line is much steeper meaning that it gets to full load much quicker.

Besides that, the only major difference, is the alternator voltage. The alernator is at 12.5 during normal driving with Red's and over 13 with Eric's, both go to over 14 when the car is under boost.

There is a start-up knock of 2 counts with both chips and both get a knock count of 1-2 exactly when the LV8 number reaches 255. Red's chip gets 2-3 more throughout a normal run. And normally Eric's has no additional knocks or knock retard.

The O2 readings are nearly identical for both chips at or around 810 throughout at full load. And no the boost isn't off. I have 2 guages in the car, that was the first thing I checked.

I am going to be getting a fuel pressure guage to see what the fuel pressure is at WOT and during acceleration. Any other guages to consider? Thinking of getting a tranny temp guage too.

Looks like I gotta go through the entire knock diagnosis checklist starting with the balancer/ Already checked the exhaust and downpipe for rattles. Going to check the convertor and bellhousing bolts. Could a U-joint be causing a false knock? It is pretty noisy when shifting and I'll probably need to replace it soon.

Whats the valve adjustment procedure on these cars? 1 loose vavle could be causing a knock couldn't it?

I'm not sure if this could be related, but the antifreeze has gotten really dirty recently, well actually after the first time I took it out to the track it was bright green and now its almost brown. I added a bottle of water wetter, but that was all.

 

[bison]

This is the 3rd time I am typing in this information as it has closed Internet Explorer on me 3 times in the middle of my post. I cannot post the Direct Scan files, I've tried and everytime IE crashes on me, not sure why. The short of it is this.

I tried Red's chip, it did not solve the problem, but it is not knocking at all in 2nd gear, so at least I can rule that out.

Eric's chip is much better overall. Better idle, better throttle response, quicker spool-up/ The only downfall is that the car gets nuts in second gear and is almost uncontrollable. The boost comes in all of a sudden and much sooner as compared to Red's which is more gradual.

The LV8 numbers are the biggest difference between the two, and only get to 255 when the car is nearly at WOT with Red's chip, it gets to 255 at mid throttle with Eric's and the line is much steeper meaning that it gets to full load much quicker.

Besides that, the only major difference, is the alternator voltage. The alernator is at 12.5 during normal driving with Red's and over 13 with Eric's, both go to over 14 when the car is under boost.

There is a start-up knock of 2 counts with both chips and both get a knock count of 1-2 exactly when the LV8 number reaches 255. Red's chip gets 2-3 more throughout a normal run. And normally Eric's has no additional knocks or knock retard.

The O2 readings are nearly identical for both chips at or around 810 throughout at full load. And no the boost isn't off. I have 2 guages in the car, that was the first thing I checked.

I am going to be getting a fuel pressure guage to see what the fuel pressure is at WOT and during acceleration. Any other guages to consider? Thinking of getting a tranny temp guage too.

Looks like I gotta go through the entire knock diagnosis checklist starting with the balancer/ Already checked the exhaust and downpipe for rattles. Going to check the convertor and bellhousing bolts. Could a U-joint be causing a false knock? It is pretty noisy when shifting and I'll probably need to replace it soon.

Whats the valve adjustment procedure on these cars? 1 loose vavle could be causing a knock couldn't it?

I'm not sure if this could be related, but the antifreeze has gotten really dirty recently, well actually after the first time I took it out to the track it was bright green and now its almost brown. I added a bottle of water wetter, but that was all.

Its not to hard to change the the u-joints. You will need a press though. You need to melt the factory ny-lock out with a torch. Wear safety glasses.

 

[wordy1]

Common to a lot of yours guys' cars the PCV is sucking oil and gumming up my intake plenum and plugs. Plugs looked good, but I cleaned them off and regapped them,. A good cleaning with Top engine cleaner helped a ton, there's no knock at all at 16 psi, and 1-2 counts at 18 psi with pump gas and knock retard under 1 degree which is what I expected with 93 octane. Should be able to run 20 psi with 100 octane and this chip now, at least thats what I hope.

Need to get a check valve for the pcv and replace it with another new Delco, nowhere around here seems to have one. not even the GM dealership, any ideas where to find a pcv?

I noticed that when the knock did happen, it happened when the car was getting out of control, ie. spinning the tires through second gear, before I go through the trouble of replacing it, could a worn U-joint be causing the false knocks? I am going to eventually replace it, but just want to pin-point a cause. When I punch it and it gets good traction, there is no knock at 16 psi. If I let it spool up through second gear and let the tires melt, there are still a number of knock counts.,

There is virtually no knock at 18 psi. Haven't yet gone higher as I received a knock count of 1 at 18 so I dropped it down a full turn.

 

[flattype]

Good to hear you got the problem taken car of. Sounds like you got a strong runner there

 

[wordy1]

This has been debated throughout these forums, but are the knock counts when the wheels are spinning REAL knock or FALSE knock?? My contention is that it is real as these motors need to sense a load to run. When there is no load there is no where else for the motor to apply its power to so the tires take the punishment.

 

[murphster]

I'm glad that you seem to have found the cause of the problem. In the future, don't leave out any details (such as your knock occurs mainly when the tires are spinning ). The data you had didn't seem quite right so I figured there had to be something that everyone was missing.

Wheelspin knock can be a combination of real and false knock. The false knock can come from tire hop and general vibration from the tires spinning. The real knock comes from the sudden increase in rpm causing a temporary lean condition. Some say its from the MAFs slow response to the sudden increase. There can also be more serious issues resulting from very high rpms and over revving if you're not paying attention. If you really want to do a burnout, just keep the rpms down and don't let them flare up and you should be ok. If you suddenly lose traction on a shift or whatever, don't ride through it and let the rpms spike either... just let off and be safe.

 

[QUIP'6']

Common to a lot of yours guys' cars the PCV is sucking oil and gumming up my intake plenum and plugs. Plugs looked good, but I cleaned them off and regapped them,. A good cleaning with Top engine cleaner helped a ton, there's no knock at all at 16 psi, and 1-2 counts at 18 psi with pump gas and knock retard under 1 degree which is what I expected with 93 octane. Should be able to run 20 psi with 100 octane and this chip now, at least thats what I hope.

Need to get a check valve for the pcv and replace it with another new Delco, nowhere around here seems to have one. not even the GM dealership, any ideas where to find a pcv?

I noticed that when the knock did happen, it happened when the car was getting out of control, ie. spinning the tires through second gear, before I go through the trouble of replacing it, could a worn U-joint be causing the false knocks? I am going to eventually replace it, but just want to pin-point a cause. When I punch it and it gets good traction, there is no knock at 16 psi. If I let it spool up through second gear and let the tires melt, there are still a number of knock counts.,

There is virtually no knock at 18 psi. Haven't yet gone higher as I received a knock count of 1 at 18 so I dropped it down a full turn.

her you go bud these things are great 3/8 for pcv line and 1/4 for the other three factory valves http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...e=USPlastic&category_name=45&product_id=15641

 

[grocerygetter]

I was fighting a knock problem right after we did a bunch of stuff on my car...know what it was?
FUel pump...specifically the line clamped onto the top of the pump. The worm drive clamp had slipped off and the line had split. Nice one, huh?!
I caught this by watching the fuel psi and egt gauges. The fuel psi would hit what it was supposed to...but it would bobble a little on the way up. EGT was way hot though. I figured it was fuel volume so we dropped the tank.

Just sharing a similar experience.

 

[wordy1]

Hmm, I just installed a new fuel pump, and will be checking these things before I put it away for winter. Thanks so much for all your input, and I really do apologize for not being more specific, as stated before I'm a small block chevy guy and all this is very new to me... but I'm slowly learning a thing or 2 about what this v6 can do..

 

[Dabigguy]

Hey Wordy. If I were you, I would replace that U-joint ASAP!!! Have you ever been in a car when one let loose? It ain't pretty. I had a rear let go once....broke the rear yoke, beat up the floor pan AND tore up my muffler. AND had to walk a mile to get help. A $25 U-joint and a couple of hours is worht the effort.

 

[wordy1]

KR is BACK

I checked the U-joint out, it looked fine, it only makes noise when you put it in gear so I don't think its the cause of the false knock. I think I'll just replace it in the spring when I install the Driveshaft Loop.

I had to put 92 octane in the car as there were no stations where my parents live that have 93 octane. I had my laptop handy and thought it would be a good opportunity to do a direct scan reading. Car was set at ~15 psi boost, total timing is 19 degrees at WOT, Fuel pressure at 43 lb. at idle with vacuum line off. My o2 readings were lower than normal at WOT with the 92, and I got some KR which makes me believe that it is real KR.

There was no KR at all with the 93 octane I get at home at 15 psi and I was able to get up to 18 psi with some toluene mixed to about 20% ~ 98 octane. Speaking of which, how long can I store the toluene? I have 3 gals left, will it last until spring or should I add something to it to keep it from deteriorating?

When the tires break loose I almost always get KR and it drives me nuts as the car is uncontrollable in 2nd gear, under any boost it rips the tires off the car on the street. I was expecting the car to be much more driveable with the stock D5 TC. It gets KR when doing a burnout as well, could this be real knock or is there definitely something rattling in the driveline?

The PCV issue has been resolved with a move restrictive PCV and I have cleaned all the plugs and ran some top engine cleaner through the throttle body to get rid of any oil residue/ After doing so there was no KR when the tires got traction up to 16 psi with pump gas and my o2 readings were around 790 throughout and stayed very steady at WOT.

Here are the Direct Scan readings at idle and one I took on a back road. I know its not the greatest, but maybe it could show something. The TPS is a bit higher than normal, but I really floored it. It stayed steady so I assume that the TPS is okay.

 

[wordy1]

car seems to be leaning out at WOT, even now that I've got my good ol 93 octane, could my chip just not have enough fuel programmed in, or could I be looking at a fuel system problem? I just installed Red's XP pump and a hot wire kit recently. The previous runs stored from the previous owner show a much more flat O2 reading and lower BLM's with Red's chip.. Could it just have more fuel than Eric's?

 

[BIGPSI]

i have similar combo,i ran blue tops before w/reds chip.fuel psi was good all the way thru wot.when i went to 009s fuel seemed to lean out at the big end.i added fuel a couple#s so its a little fat on the bottom but stays good at wot i did not change anything on the chips reds108 w/110 cam 2 went 11.95@112 w/24#S boost.reds93,on sunoco ultra94w/19-20#sboost went mid 12s it could be anything,good luck.

 

[wordy1]

YEah, I think Eric's chip just doesn't not have enough fuel at WOT, and I don't want to raise the fuel much higher at idle to hurt overall drivability.