Target Boost Level for TA-49 w/ Alky
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Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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Hey Eric.
Without any attempt to insult your intelligence, I would say 23-25 “Theoretical”.
As you know, each car is different, but the HP benefit of the 49 will show in the 23 PSI + area. If you were testing at the track, and the car did not pick up any MPH after 21 PSI (For example), than you know you reached "the point of diminishing returns for your combo".
Without any attempt to insult your intelligence, I would say 23-25 “Theoretical”.
As you know, each car is different, but the HP benefit of the 49 will show in the 23 PSI + area. If you were testing at the track, and the car did not pick up any MPH after 21 PSI (For example), than you know you reached "the point of diminishing returns for your combo".
Thanks for the reply Jerryl, my "intelligence" is always questionable :redface:
I'm currently running 20lbs of boost with the Alky knob at just a tad over 6. This past weekend I took the car to a 1/8th mile dragstrip and ran a best of 8.9 seconds at 73 mph. I feel my combo has more to give me with the alky and 93 pump gas.
I'm currently running 20lbs of boost with the Alky knob at just a tad over 6. This past weekend I took the car to a 1/8th mile dragstrip and ran a best of 8.9 seconds at 73 mph. I feel my combo has more to give me with the alky and 93 pump gas.
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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Yes, 20lbs and alky. I'm very much a novice at the dragstrip, this past weekend was the first time in probably a year and a half (3rd time total).
My last pass was a total disaster. I added 2 degrees of timing and was able to build some boost at the line. When I hit it the car started going sideways really bad, I let off the gas, straigthened up and stumped it again for a run of 10.4 at 73 mph.
A friend with a 87 GNX clone was behind me in line and saw what happened to me and tried not to be as aggressive, but still when sideways some, so the track wasn't at it's best at that time.
All this was with regular street radials.
My last pass was a total disaster. I added 2 degrees of timing and was able to build some boost at the line. When I hit it the car started going sideways really bad, I let off the gas, straigthened up and stumped it again for a run of 10.4 at 73 mph.
A friend with a 87 GNX clone was behind me in line and saw what happened to me and tried not to be as aggressive, but still when sideways some, so the track wasn't at it's best at that time.
All this was with regular street radials.
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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Are you running rich?
KR?
KR?
Probably running too rich.
Here's basically what happend.
First Pass: 20lbs of boost, alky set knob at 6 no added timing (TT Street chip). 8.9 sec at 73 MPH. O2s at 792 and knock at 1.4
Second pass: Brought the boost up to 21lbs and tweeked the alky knob to a 6 1/4, no added timing. 9.2 at 75 mph. Don't remember the O2s, but no knock.
Third pass (Car goes sideways pass): Turned boost to 20 lbs left the alky alone and added 2 degrees of timing, 10.4 at 73 mph. O2s at 820 and no knock.
I think I'm going to start writing down all the settings and readings on the back of the time slips from now on. Also thinking about tuning with no boost build at the line. I'm not experienced enough to build a consistant amount of boost every single time, plus need to work on traction issues.
My mentality was to make different adjustments each pass to see what increasing boost, timing and alky did.
Here's basically what happend.
First Pass: 20lbs of boost, alky set knob at 6 no added timing (TT Street chip). 8.9 sec at 73 MPH. O2s at 792 and knock at 1.4
Second pass: Brought the boost up to 21lbs and tweeked the alky knob to a 6 1/4, no added timing. 9.2 at 75 mph. Don't remember the O2s, but no knock.
Third pass (Car goes sideways pass): Turned boost to 20 lbs left the alky alone and added 2 degrees of timing, 10.4 at 73 mph. O2s at 820 and no knock.
I think I'm going to start writing down all the settings and readings on the back of the time slips from now on. Also thinking about tuning with no boost build at the line. I'm not experienced enough to build a consistant amount of boost every single time, plus need to work on traction issues.
My mentality was to make different adjustments each pass to see what increasing boost, timing and alky did.
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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I would have thought that higher timing would have yielded higher MPH.
No boost at the line (for now) will give at least a more consistent launch.
What I learned from the experts;
You may want to focus on MPH for now. (Max HP)
The highest MPH will usually result in the fastest time for your set-up.
Faster times after your tune is right will require more HP and better suspension set-up/tires and learning how to launch your car.
Do you know what the converter % slip is?
Where does the car shift at?
I'm running a Pat's Performance Converter 1003XHD 10” 2004R W/Anti-balloon Plates. I really don't know what the % slip is for that converter, but if it's important information I can email them. Next time I'm in the car I'll note the tranny shift points.
I'll been thinking about buying one of those Powerloggers from Full Throttle, but have to save up some $$$ to get one.
I'll been thinking about buying one of those Powerloggers from Full Throttle, but have to save up some $$$ to get one.
boostmaster
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Times!!!
Anything over 24 PSI up to 28psi and the Ta49 will pull hard.
73 MPH is low, about 6-10 MPH low. @ 73 MPH in the 1/8 that equates to 93-95 MPH in the 1/4 which puts you around 14.0-14.5 depending on traction. Not bad but @ 20psi with your mods your tune is wayyyy off. Try this; turn off the alky, start boost @ 15PSI (or as much as you can run on pump without KR) & 43PSI fuel pressure make a pass. Don't worry about traction for a while. See what MPH you trap at. No kr turn FP down 2 #'s make another pass, trap speed increases no kr decrease fp 2 more #'s. Find your target A/f ratio then start adding alky, boost and FP.
You should easily be able to run 8.0's - 8.5's @ 20+ PSI.
Hey Eric.
Without any attempt to insult your intelligence, I would say 23-25 “Theoretical”.
As you know, each car is different, but the HP benefit of the 49 will show in the 23 PSI + area. If you were testing at the track, and the car did not pick up any MPH after 21 PSI (For example), than you know you reached "the point of diminishing returns for your combo".
Anything over 24 PSI up to 28psi and the Ta49 will pull hard.
Eric,
Was this run at 20PSI and Alky?
The 73 MPH seems low.
73 MPH is low, about 6-10 MPH low. @ 73 MPH in the 1/8 that equates to 93-95 MPH in the 1/4 which puts you around 14.0-14.5 depending on traction. Not bad but @ 20psi with your mods your tune is wayyyy off. Try this; turn off the alky, start boost @ 15PSI (or as much as you can run on pump without KR) & 43PSI fuel pressure make a pass. Don't worry about traction for a while. See what MPH you trap at. No kr turn FP down 2 #'s make another pass, trap speed increases no kr decrease fp 2 more #'s. Find your target A/f ratio then start adding alky, boost and FP.
You should easily be able to run 8.0's - 8.5's @ 20+ PSI.
boostmaster
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Good converter, but 3000 stall is about as high as you want to go on a ta49, 26-2800 would be ideal. Bet it rips from a stand still.
esinger,the ta49 will wake up 23+psi.usually blowing hot air into the motor above 25psi depending on the combo of the car.the alky cooling effect will allow for higher boost levels helping 25+psi runs but it's only going to move so much air.your not rich if there is knock,like your first pass although low it was still there even though the o2's were in the 790's.usually erik sets a target boost level say between 22 and 25psi in the chip, below that it may be a little rich.i found his afr was right on and alky just needed to be applied to the knock sensor=0.0.adding 1lb of boost and a little alky made more mph on those runs,more mph =horsepower,so you moved in the right direction.lowering boost and adding timing dropped your mph therefore losing power.lower the timing, add alky, raise boost to target the 49's sweetspot of 23psi+ then work the traction and you'll get those et's down and mph up!
esinger,i run a 10.5 3200 protorque on 49 to nearly 120mph.a friend on mine ran a nonlock art carr 3500 stall on his 49 worked very well.the 3000 stall will work and if locked should make the car mph more.at 20psi on a 49 there is not much more airflow than a stock one,gotta wake up that 49 but safely.good luck!
boostmaster
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Mr.Spool, No disrespect but my guess is that your intercooled. And even though they are similar there is a night and day difference in what works for a hot air car vs a intercooled car. The target a/f ratios are different, boost effeceincy is different, air flow volume, lots of small stuff. You tell me how many hot airs out there running 125 mph with any sized turbo. Besides staged motor Lee Thompson when he was hot air, nobody!!!
Wow, woke up this morning to some good advice. Thanks for your input. Lucky there's a 1/8th mile track close by (about a 15 minute drive away). Seems like I'll have to become a regular for a while 
I have a dead end road with no houses/people that is probably 1/8th of a mile long or longer. Is there anything I can accomplish on that without timing equipment?
I have a dead end road with no houses/people that is probably 1/8th of a mile long or longer. Is there anything I can accomplish on that without timing equipment?
boostmaster,yes my car is intercooled and i don't feel disrespected.my point is although the cars are different tuning is tuning if he raised boost 1lb and added some cooling and fuel with alky and the car picked up mph,it made more power with no knock regardless of the 02's which aren't completly accurate to begin with.
Still trying to learn and sorry for the hijack.
Correct me if I am wrong please.
So by finding you target a/f ratio and keeping it as high(lean) as possible without kr you find where your car likes to be and make the most hp. So then would be best to start off at stock boost level and adj fp as above for best mph and no knock. Then add boost and fp to maintain a/f ratio until kr appears. Then when kr starts stop adding fp and start adding alky until kr stops and a/f comes back down to target level. Then as you continue to add boost should you add alky or add fuel through the chip or both ? Or is that part of tuning that we all have to figure out through trial and head gaskets
? I do realize that weather conditions can effect your tuning which I am not going to obsess over. As long as it runs good with no knock I will be :biggrin: Trap speed, is that your mph at the end of your measured run ?
What ballpark range should the a/f be at wot?
After you get your a/f correct at your target boost level then would it be time to increase your timing ?
boostmaster
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Still trying to learn and sorry for the hijack.
Correct me if I am wrong please.
So by finding you target a/f ratio and keeping it as high(lean) as possible without kr you find where your car likes to be and make the most hp. So then would be best to start off at stock boost level and adj fp as above for best mph and no knock. Then add boost and fp to maintain a/f ratio until kr appears. Then when kr starts stop adding fp and start adding alky until kr stops and a/f comes back down to target level. Then as you continue to add boost should you add alky or add fuel through the chip or both ? Or is that part of tuning that we all have to figure out through trial and head gaskets
Trap speed, is that your mph at the end of your measured run ?
What ballpark range should the a/f be at wot?
After you get your a/f correct at your target boost level then would it be time to increase your timing ?
Sounds like you got it down. Each car is different that's why you have to find your own mark. Don't worry about ET for the first few runs just get your mph up then start worrying about traction.
ok so im still learning all this as well. say im running 11.4 on my WB and im at 16 psi (no alky). i turn the on alky and turn the boost to up to 25 psi.Since im adding alky its droping my air/fuel even richer to 10.1 on the wb @25psi of boost. so now i back my alky off alittle to right till i see some knock then i add just a tad more alky so there is no knock. now say my a/f is 10.6 on the WB would i pull fuel now from the chip to get back to the target a/f of 11.4? then lets say i start seeing knock when im pulling fuel out i guess i would need to add more alky to supress knock while still pulling fuel? then lets say i want to run more alky due to the decrease in intake temps so i would add more alky to cool more and then pull even more full out of the chip to keep my a/f at 11.4 correct? i think this is what i need to do i just never really put it down on paper. if someone can answer this thank you.
boostmaster
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When using a wideband a/f ratio will always be (richer) lower when alky is injected no matter what (it just burns different). That's why I say find out what your target is with and without alcohol. That way you will know what your target a/f ratio with both. Tune it on the gas and max out then throw in the alky. If you don't want to waste time and fuel doing it that way. Run your base set up with alky on, start taking away fuel 2#'s per run until your mph fall off or you get knock, log your O2's, a/f ratio. Turn the boost and fuel up in equal amounts in small increments let the progressive controller take care of the alky. (Important) O2's will be the same for alky & gas or straight gas, which means that whatever O2 mv's your car likes will be the same with or without alky cause the sensor just reads oxygen content in the exhaust.
