TE 44 compressor map
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Westside500
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Does anyone know where I can find the compressor map for a TE44? Looking to find it's most efficient operating range. I tried doing a search, no luck. Thanks
Here is a Garrett 3bolt 45 close to a 44
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I see pressure ratio along the left vertical scale, and I see air flow (lb/min) along the bottom scale, but I don't see where you're reading 15-25 boost range.
Assuming your intake filter system isn't unusually restrictive the inlet pressure will be only slightly below atmospheric so assuming 1 bar is a good aproximation for P1. That makes a pressure ratio of 1 roughly equal to 0 psi gauge boost, 2 equals 15 psi boost, and 3 equals 30 psi (and 25 psi = 2.7; boost = P2/P2*15-15). On the horizontal scale assuming a typical bsfc and afr makes hp roughly 10 times the normalized airflow. Looking at the TO4E 60 trim map, the upper tip of the innermost, most efficient island (which isn't labeled but the next one down is 78% so this must be 79 or 80%) is at P2/P1=2.5 and airflow=35 lb/min, which is roughly equal to 22.5 psi boost and 350 hp. Taking into account the exact inlet pressure and ambient temperatures will make a small difference so for best accuracy all the math should be done, but for eyeballing compressor maps this works well.
Man o man, I was confused! I thought the pressure ratio was the ratio of boost created comparted to backpressure created by the turbine. Thanks for clerifying.
Boost divided by 14.7+1= pressure ratio.
20psi/14.7+1 = 2.36.
Dry air has a density of 13.076307480840681 cubic feet per pound
Dry air at 0ºC has a density of 12.417423770565761 cubic feet per pound.
pounds/minute * cubic feet/pound = cubic feet/minute.
9.5-10.5 horsepower (as measured at the flywheel) for each lb/min of airflow. So, an engine with a target peak horsepower of 400 Hp will require 36-44 lb/min of airflow to achieve that target.
You can go back and forth with this to get a general airflow number based on your projected hp.
This turbo is very efficient in the range I was talking about.
Stock GN motor is realistically about 275hp at 14.7psi. Pressure ratio is 2.0. This gets you at about 137.5hp without a turbo. Upping the stock engine's boost to 20, gives you a pressure ratio of 2.36, which gives you 324.5hp. Theres plenty of rough data here to get a boost idea and find your area on the compressor map which you're interested in.
20psi/14.7+1 = 2.36.
Dry air has a density of 13.076307480840681 cubic feet per pound
Dry air at 0ºC has a density of 12.417423770565761 cubic feet per pound.
pounds/minute * cubic feet/pound = cubic feet/minute.
9.5-10.5 horsepower (as measured at the flywheel) for each lb/min of airflow. So, an engine with a target peak horsepower of 400 Hp will require 36-44 lb/min of airflow to achieve that target.
You can go back and forth with this to get a general airflow number based on your projected hp.
This turbo is very efficient in the range I was talking about.
Stock GN motor is realistically about 275hp at 14.7psi. Pressure ratio is 2.0. This gets you at about 137.5hp without a turbo. Upping the stock engine's boost to 20, gives you a pressure ratio of 2.36, which gives you 324.5hp. Theres plenty of rough data here to get a boost idea and find your area on the compressor map which you're interested in.
I estimated my HP, based on terminal speed in the 1/4 (117.5) with 3850# of car weight at something around 450+ HP.
PTE44 (.85 housing), and MSD 50's, front mount. Rest of engine bone stock.
Was I running the turbo dangerously close to overspeeding?
27# of boost btw.
Yeah. You're basically off the map. I dont know if you're just being a wiseguy or if you really are trying to find something, but with an engine that truly is stock...like no work whatsoever on the intake, the heads, no aftermarket intake tube, stock exhaust, etc, gets you at about 3.2. But something tells me you have some work done to improve breathing somewhere. 450 with a TRULY bone stock engine would require a pressure ratio of about 3.2, which is WAY up there and far from likely. Weather conditions are worth alot of power so who knows.
I estimated my HP, based on terminal speed in the 1/4 (117.5) with 3850# of car weight at something around 450+ HP.
PTE44 (.85 housing), and MSD 50's, front mount. Rest of engine bone stock.
Was I running the turbo dangerously close to overspeeding?
27# of boost btw.
200-450hp is possible with that turbo, and it can be in the efficiency range too. But only if you bring the pressure ratio down to around 2, which is 15psi. To make 450 with 15psi would require big flowing heads, intake, cam, and allt he other crap to go with it. You can make alot of power at 27psi, or at 15psi...the same power. Thats what the map is telling you. You need to increase the breathing capacity of the engine, post turbo, in order to get there.
Not trying to be a wise guy at all. The engine has absolutely no mods done to it. I have a PTE44, MSD 50's, V2 front mount, and Translator+ w/LS1 MAF, THDP(run open at the track), stock headers.
When I was racing out in San Diego, the car turned 11.60's, and consistent 117.5mph runs. Car with me weighs 3850# according to an official NHRA scale.
Cool.
Never really know around here. Lots of know it all's here who like to slam everyone else.Your turbo (and mine) is definetely not intended to push 450hp at 27psi. More like 15-18psi. Cylinder head and intake manifold flow are everything when it comes to an efficient, non detonating high powered forced induction engine.
This is some good information....isn't the 44 rated at 580hp at the flywheel? i a running 23 psi and trapping close to 123mph with an unlocked torque converter..i punched in the weight of my car , mph, and the hp calculator said i had 520hp at the wheels Seems a little high but i don't know. i am hopefully going to the track Saturday night to see if i can up the mph some more and get the 60's down. Bob
Seems a little high but i don't know. i am hopefully going to the track Saturday night to see if i can up the mph some more and get the 60's down. BobThis is some good information....isn't the 44 rated at 580hp at the flywheel? i a running 23 psi and trapping close to 123mph with an unlocked torque converter..i punched in the weight of my car , mph, and the hp calculator said i had 520hp at the wheels
Thats real impressive. You're trapping 10 second mph's. Looks like with some suspension tweaks and maybe some tuning work for the first 300 feet and you'll have a 10 second ride. Some people drastically underestimate the worth of high flowing heads and intake. They figure you just pump the boost up to where the turbo wasnt designed to be and deal with eliminating the detonation that comes from the extreme discharge temps by running real high octane, pulling timing and running a huge IC is good enough. It can be done, but Id rather get there by making the top end efficient. Those TE-44 hp ratings are really high. Its more along the lines of 450hp, but they do over rate them for some reason. Your traps are the best Ive ever seen for a 44. Good job! Ive always felt that the 44 could run 10's more often if the whole top end was opened up to get the turbo in its efficiency range, and you've definetely proven it to be true. Judging by your 60 ft, if you got that down to a 1.5, you could have a 10.7-10.8 ride!
So that TO4E 60 Trim is a TE-44? Something about that graph doesnt look right. The power extends pretty far over for such a small turbo. There are some errors with the rpm numbers as well.
Sorry Dave, I just realized I forgot to put up a smiley face with the wiseguy remark. Thats what was intended. No intent of being a jerk...
VadersV6
Thanks for the compliments. i don't have time to work on the car right now but i hope i get the 400 trans in with the brake and the 44 so i can see how quick i can go with the small turbo ,but a 70 is calling my name i just love the way the 44 spools and it makes good power for a daily driver..........Bob
Thanks for the compliments. i don't have time to work on the car right now but i hope i get the 400 trans in with the brake and the 44 so i can see how quick i can go with the small turbo ,but a 70 is calling my name
i just love the way the 44 spools and it makes good power for a daily driver..........Bob117.5 mph on average is an 11.54, and that at 3850 lbs is 493 average rwhp which is about 580 average fwhp
Yes, I knew my ET's weren't up to snuff, but at the time I was running 16" ET Streets (sucky low sidewalls with insufficient flex). My average 60's were in the the 1.7's.
