Tell me I'm wrong or not...

[NCTURBOS]

So, I'm working on a car last night replacing the valve stem seals on a set of Champion heads. They are not a new set of heads, but have very recently been "freshened" by someone else, and the car has been smoking badly... Upon inspection they have "umbrella shields" on all the guides instead of a good seal like the way Champion assembles them, and they're all hung up on top of the valve. So I begin the job and decide to check the installed height and retainer clearance while I'm there. The springs are Comp 26918 and the camshaft is a 214/214 roller. There are no shims or locators being used and they come to 1.925" istalled height. According to Comp they should be installed @ 1.800" with 130 seat pressure. My calculations put them at approx. 90 seat pressure where they are now and not near enough pressure on the nose...

The machine shop in south Georgia that installed them just a couple months ago says they are fine where they're at... And they deny the issues with the seals as well...


K.

 

[blown okie]

i would take the heads to a different shop, verify that the guides have the correct amount of clearance... if they are loose then the umbrella seals will do a questionable job of oil control...better seals will work for a while if the guides are a touch loose...as for the spring height i would find a good spring compression tester and confirm the height/ spring pressures...if they are only 90 lbs. then that is to weak.. the 130 lbs seat/ 300 + open pressures are closer to where they should be with a roller cam...if it was flat tappet then it would probably be ok... and i would recommend at least a 0.015 shim under the springs to keep the spring from wearing the head...it happens ... i've seen it first hand... some do it worse than others though..

 

[NCTURBOS]

i would take the heads to a different shop, verify that the guides have the correct amount of clearance... if they are loose then the umbrella seals will do a questionable job of oil control...better seals will work for a while if the guides are a touch loose...

The guides are machined for the white teflon seals (I have these in stock), clearance is fine, but they took those off and installed the umbrellas...

as for the spring height i would find a good spring compression tester and confirm the height/ spring pressures...if they are only 90 lbs. then that is to weak.. the 130 lbs seat/ 300 + open pressures are closer to where they should be with a roller cam...if it was flat tappet then it would probably be ok...

It's a roller cam, and a high lift at that. Verifying the spring pressure is something we'll do, but going off of the CompCam website (so far) they'll be around 90 lbs. when installed at 1.925", like they had them.

I just can't believe that Wildcat thinks this setup is OK. Can you imagine revving this thing with low spring pressure like this and watching the spring/valve jump all around. Talk about wearing out the seat and premature spring failure...


K.

 

[Lee Thompson]

I can't believe this

The guides are machined for the white teflon seals (I have these in stock), clearance is fine, but they took those off and installed the umbrellas...



It's a roller cam, and a high lift at that. Verifying the spring pressure is something we'll do, but going off of the CompCam website (so far) they'll be around 90 lbs. when installed at 1.925", like they had them.

I just can't believe that Wildcat thinks this setup is OK. Can you imagine revving this thing with low spring pressure like this and watching the spring/valve jump all around. Talk about wearing out the seat and premature spring failure...


K.

This is supposed to be the only shop in the whole USA that know EVERYTHING
about Buick eng. The only shop that knows how to assemble correctly also.

 

[S2V6RACER]

This is supposed to be the only shop in the whole USA that know EVERYTHING
about Buick eng. The only shop that knows how to assemble correctly also.

Wow, never heard of these guys before. :biggrin:

 

[Big Turbo Scott]

They probably installed needed the clearance for the HUGE valve lift. I had to cut my retainers .050 on the bottom and use .050 up locks to get my cam at a resonable 1.800 installed height.(big cam). Spring presssures were 170lbs at 1.700!! This was a beehive spring. The pressures were way off from "rated sets" and pressures printed on the box. I use "professional" software to rate springs so I can put my faith in the numbers. Just because they say Xlbs on the box does not mean that they are in fact X. Point is maybe this shop in GA needed the installed height because of misinformation on the spring or maybe the seats sunk .050 because the tune was off. How do the seats look? Also, measure EVERY valves installed height and lets see how far every hole is off from each other. What did they use between the spring and the head too? No locater,cup, or shim?

Next, DONT EVER use those teflon POS valve seals!!!! Get a seal that uses all viton rubber with a full metal jacket. Pm me if you need some. A must if guide clearance is big.


BTS

 

[Blazer406]

....... The springs are Comp 26918 and the camshaft is a 214/214 roller. There are no shims or locators being used and they come to 1.925" istalled height. According to Comp they should be installed @ 1.800" with 130 seat pressure. My calculations put them at approx. 90 seat pressure where they are now and not near enough pressure on the nose...

The machine shop in south Georgia that installed them just a couple months ago says they are fine where they're at... And they deny the issues with the seals as well...
K.

I would be pissed as well.... I am running that spring....... and I told my machinist to set them at 1.75" installed height. If my math is correct... that is 145# or so on the seat.... I figure they are going to break/wear in some... and will settle hopefully in the 130's....

IMHO... if that machinist set them up a 1.925" on purpose... I checked your math... it is almost 91# .... on the seat... IMHO ... the machinist is dead wrong if he set these up like this.... his high school flunky shop sweeper guy must have set these up....

I'm sorry... but that is unacceptable!

 

[Steve V]

Got a guy up here that has a wildcat engine and it smokes and taps it's ass off,I am probably going through it here soon. Sounds like they SUCK to me!

 

[NCTURBOS]

They probably installed needed the clearance for the HUGE valve lift. I had to cut my retainers .050 on the bottom and use .050 up locks to get my cam at a resonable 1.800 installed height.(big cam). Spring presssures were 170lbs at 1.700!! This was a beehive spring. The pressures were way off from "rated sets" and pressures printed on the box. I use "professional" software to rate springs so I can put my faith in the numbers. Just because they say Xlbs on the box does not mean that they are in fact X. Point is maybe this shop in GA needed the installed height because of misinformation on the spring or maybe the seats sunk .050 because the tune was off. How do the seats look? Also, measure EVERY valves installed height and lets see how far every hole is off from each other. What did they use between the spring and the head too? No locater,cup, or shim?

Next, DONT EVER use those teflon POS valve seals!!!! Get a seal that uses all viton rubber with a full metal jacket. Pm me if you need some. A must if guide clearance is big.


BTS

The cam has .566 lift, and there is plenty of retainer clearance with them installed @ 1.800". There were no shims or locators on the heads.

Why don't you like the teflon seals? So far we've had the best luck with them, but I'd like your opinion. Are you going to the AutoFair?


K.