The TR Slippery Slope

NY Twin Turbo

All the good stuff.....Times 2.
Dec 10, 2014
2,475
833
113
47
Westchester NY
I'd like to add to what I have already posted.

Budget itself means nothing. Yes. I said it. NOTHING!

Your budget can't be determined or followed until you choose what's going to make you happy.

What good is a 10,000 dollar budget if your not going to be happy unless the car runs 8's? Your just setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.

First-
make the the decisions I outlined in my first post. Ask, "what will make me happy?" or "what will make me proud?" No answer is more important then this. Being "OK" with something is a pusy answer. It's not real. It basically means "I'm still not happy with it and I'm planning to fix it sooner or later but haven't figured out how I'm going to pay or find time for it yet." So, basically it should have been part of the original plan to make you happy to begin with.

Then second-
Set a budget. This includes work you can do yourself, things you can make yourself, the time line you need to do it, or the personal time you will be allowed to do this.

Third-
Then ask us, your friends, your family, and yourself, if this is possible. If you can't build what you absolutely will love within that budget, don't lower your expectations. You will only be lying to yourself. You can't change the fact that deep inside you always wanted more. Instead, just sell the car or set it on fire. Seriously. Don't bother. Just fuck-it. Because non of it will matter. You won't be happy anyway. Neither will your family. Or your social situation. And your going to blame everything and everyone (including the Buick) when your unrealistic goals are never met.

Sorry for the morbid truth. Not interested in a debate over this. Because everyone of you knows its true. Especially the 15,000 or so X-Turbo Buick owners who are no longer with us.
 

Dhos1

member
Apr 14, 2012
927
52
28
50
Texas
I'd like to add to what I have already posted.

Budget itself means nothing. Yes. I said it. NOTHING!

Your budget can't be determined or followed until you choose what's going to make you happy.

What good is a 10,000 dollar budget if your not going to be happy unless the car runs 8's? Your just setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.

First-
make the the decisions I outlined in my first post. Ask, "what will make me happy?" or "what will make me proud?" No answer is more important then this. Being "OK" with something is a pusy answer. It's not real. It basically means "I'm still not happy with it and I'm planning to fix it sooner or later but haven't figured out how I'm going to pay or find time for it yet." So, basically it should have been part of the original plan to make you happy to begin with.

Then second-
Set a budget. This includes work you can do yourself, things you can make yourself, the time line you need to do it, or the personal time you will be allowed to do this.

Third-
Then ask us, your friends, your family, and yourself, if this is possible. If you can't build what you absolutely will love within that budget, don't lower your expectations. You will only be lying to yourself. You can't change the fact that deep inside you always wanted more. Instead, just sell the car or set it on fire. Seriously. Don't bother. Just fuck-it. Because non of it will matter. You won't be happy anyway. Neither will your family. Or your social situation. And your going to blame everything and everyone (including the Buick) when your unrealistic goals are never met.

Sorry for the morbid truth. Not interested in a debate over this. Because everyone of you knows its true. Especially the 15,000 or so X-Turbo Buick owners who are no longer with us.
This is true.....or When you get your ass handed to you by a Hellcat—wish you would have.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
4,173
521
113
Opinions solicited...

While it's taken me about 5 years to get to this point with the GN, I am making the move this Spring to heads, cam, intake and supporting mods to really take advantage of the 6262, built tranny, stall, etc. Love to be able to go to Atco in the Fall, click off something in the 10s and get asked to leave :) I also just want to have something 10s capable all day, beast on the street AND since it may see 3 or 4 track passes a year tops but a few dozen street playful hits per year, I'd like what I build to be reliable. I might be kidding myself with the last part.

I am also doing the ECU-GN because I am a big believer in proactive monitoring and safety precautions (just one more level of protection against the stupid human tricks we sometimes do knowingly or unknowingly, i.e. take the car out on a cold dense air 35 degree day for "one last blast" before I put her away for the winter and realize the boost was still set to 25# and now she just spiked to about 30# with a split second of knock! )

So, while the motor's out, I'll address my bad motor mounts and proactively upgrade things like the flex plate, water pump, front cover, timing chain and so forth.

Here's where it gets slippery. I start saying to myself, "while it's out, why not address the main caps. Why not beef up the bottom end." And the slope gets steeper with no bottom in sight.

What am I getting myself into?!

Why didn't I just buy a motor completely done for about the same total investment by the time I'm done?

Why don't I just leave well-enough alone?

Seriously though - is there anything I should DEFINITELY address while the motor is out for the top end???

Thank you for your advice gentlemen.
I would also advise you to Take a ride in a combo that you think you may want and go from there.
 

deezdad

Active Member
Mar 25, 2005
919
211
43
Mendon, Ma
I'd like to add to what I have already posted.

Budget itself means nothing. Yes. I said it. NOTHING!

Your budget can't be determined or followed until you choose what's going to make you happy.

What good is a 10,000 dollar budget if your not going to be happy unless the car runs 8's? Your just setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.

First-
make the the decisions I outlined in my first post. Ask, "what will make me happy?" or "what will make me proud?" No answer is more important then this. Being "OK" with something is a pusy answer. It's not real. It basically means "I'm still not happy with it and I'm planning to fix it sooner or later but haven't figured out how I'm going to pay or find time for it yet." So, basically it should have been part of the original plan to make you happy to begin with.

Then second-
Set a budget. This includes work you can do yourself, things you can make yourself, the time line you need to do it, or the personal time you will be allowed to do this.

Third-
Then ask us, your friends, your family, and yourself, if this is possible. If you can't build what you absolutely will love within that budget, don't lower your expectations. You will only be lying to yourself. You can't change the fact that deep inside you always wanted more. Instead, just sell the car or set it on fire. Seriously. Don't bother. Just fuck-it. Because non of it will matter. You won't be happy anyway. Neither will your family. Or your social situation. And your going to blame everything and everyone (including the Buick) when your unrealistic goals are never met.

Sorry for the morbid truth. Not interested in a debate over this. Because everyone of you knows its true. Especially the 15,000 or so X-Turbo Buick owners who are no longer with us.
Ahh spoken like a man living under a hard hat with Slayer lyrics as his inspiration to put all else to shame :censored:
 

deezdad

Active Member
Mar 25, 2005
919
211
43
Mendon, Ma
Personally I'd take hard look at some old school combos ie; te44/49, duttneck, restalled d5, 36# blue tops, stock heads, ported elbow w/ 2.5" exhaust n see how far those guys have gone keeping it simple... firm believer in less is more with these cars but I am admittedly (and proudly) living in the past :geek:
 
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ETraugott

Member
Sep 3, 2018
42
26
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Got a similar combo. stock head with mild port work. think car has small cam but unsure. 25psi. 11.04 at 126mph. my 60’ is trash. definitely 10 sec MPH.
 
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SpeedRacerX

Active Member
Jan 20, 2014
911
229
43
51
Southern NJ
Personally I'd take hard look at some old school combos ie; te44/49, duttneck, restalled d5, 36# blue tops, stock heads, ported elbow w/ 2.5" exhaust n see how far those guys have gone keeping it simple... firm believer in less is more with these cars but I am admittedly (and proudly) living in the past :geek:
I hear you but I am passed that now.

I don't want to run a combo all out and see how far it can take me...on the edge.

I'd rather overbuild it and run it a half-second or three-quarters-second less than it can.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

SpeedRacerX

Active Member
Jan 20, 2014
911
229
43
51
Southern NJ
What ET and MPH are you running now?
11.7-11.8@117-118 with a 1.6x 60-foot. But that was with the TA49 @25#. This is before the 6262 turbo, built trans, Husek torque converter and a little weight loss. I'd expect low 11s.
With heads, cam, etc... I'd like to see it easily dip into the high 10s without riding the hair on fire edge.

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ttypewhite

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2001
3,175
490
83
46
Toronto
My 2 cents... Don't sacrifice comfort for speed. Make the power and don't start pulling out weight in a car that you drive on the street. Your goal is extremely easy to do without having to lighten anything. My car is heavier now, then it ever was coming off of the assembly line, and it feels and rides better then a brand new GN back in the day. I would look for a complete engine built the way you want it. Tons surface weekly in the parts section on this board. No wait time, down time etc. You will save thousands of dollars by doing so. Upgrade your fuel system to handle the increased hp, then have somebody reputable tune it for you. The rest is just maintenance. Don't do anything that involves a increase in hp on a budget, build it correctly or leave it alone.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
4,173
521
113
the cars can be fun,but in the 10s
This is before the 6262 turbo, built trans, Husek torque converter and a little weight loss. I'd expect low 11s.
With heads, cam, etc... I'd like to see it easily dip into the high 10s
heads,cam,ecu,thats alot of $$ to go a little faster.your combo now should be 10 sec capable with a hotter tune and a good 60ft,its just not going to do it on 25psi and low timing.a motor with a better ve can,i had one with a champion iron head run into the 10s at 18psi,18 degrees of timing,shifting at 4800rpm,it was a high comp motor,the stock motor low comp with a ported head did that but needed more boost and timing and a stronger 60ft.
 

turbo39151

anycoloraslongasitsblack
Nov 7, 2002
3,818
167
63
NoVA, in the garage
Just my .02,,, If you build the engine forged guts, port and polish everything, caps, girdle etc.... you have an engine that can handle the power, then you need a beefed up trans, but then you need a beefed up rear end and then the axles, and then the brakes to stop the beast and then.... You get the idea.. It's a rabbit hole that goes on and on.

I had to give up my dream of doing something similar when I had an engine built for a project... I decided that I valued reliability and that my pockets simply were not deep enough to keep pushing the envelope.

Luckily, the GN's reputation is legendary and my slow GN still looks mean and just like all the fast ones.... Didn't cost me any extra! Priceless.
 
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ttypewhite

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2001
3,175
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Toronto
Just my .02,,, If you build the engine forged guts, port and polish everything, caps, girdle etc.... you have an engine that can handle the power, then you need a beefed up trans, but then you need a beefed up rear end and then the axles, and then the brakes to stop the beast and then.... You get the idea.. It's a rabbit hole that goes on and on.

I had to give up my dream of doing something similar when I had an engine built for a project... I decided that I valued reliability and that my pockets simply were not deep enough to keep pushing the envelope.

Luckily, the GN's reputation is legendary and my slow GN still looks mean and just like all the fast ones.... Didn't cost me any extra! Priceless.

Although I respect your decision, I struggle with your analogy. It's a marathon, not a sprint. My car didn't get to where it is by doing everything at the same time. Nothing wrong with a built engine, even if the trans and rear end isn't upgraded. There are stages involved in a build as well, you just have to be disciplined. If it's a street car, your not going to lunch the rear end on the street, no reliability issues there. As for the transmission, don't set the car on kill to where you will have a problem with it. Build it up later as time and money permits. Reliability depends mainly on yourself. The most valuable piece of real estate in this world is what's in between your ears. If you know the dangers, know the cost of it, and keep your investment alive. The car isn't going to destroy itself, your gonna do that all on your own.... That mind set will never cost me my dreams, might prolong it, but I will achieve it eventually. Life is too short. Can't put limitations on it.
 
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V6sleeper

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,464
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long island,ny
Personally I'd take hard look at some old school combos ie; te44/49, duttneck, restalled d5, 36# blue tops, stock heads, ported elbow w/ 2.5" exhaust n see how far those guys have gone keeping it simple... firm believer in less is more with these cars but I am admittedly (and proudly) living in the past :geek:
This is true, ive beatin alot of guys back in the day that had alot more then me with this combo, loved waxing 70mm turbo mis-matched combos with my te-44
 

NY Twin Turbo

All the good stuff.....Times 2.
Dec 10, 2014
2,475
833
113
47
Westchester NY
Although I respect your decision, I struggle with your analogy. It's a marathon, not a sprint. My car didn't get to where it is by doing everything at the same time. Nothing wrong with a built engine, even if the trans and rear end isn't upgraded. There are stages involved in a build as well, you just have to be disciplined. If it's a street car, your not going to lunch the rear end on the street, no reliability issues there. As for the transmission, don't set the car on kill to where you will have a problem with it. Build it up later as time and money permits. Reliability depends mainly on yourself. The most valuable piece of real estate in this world is what's in between your ears. If you know the dangers, know the cost of it, and keep your investment alive. The car isn't going to destroy itself, your gonna do that all on your own.... That mind set will never cost me my dreams, might prolong it, but I will achieve it eventually. Life is too short. Can't put limitations on it.
I agree. The whole car doesn't have to be done all at once. Maybe the engine build, but not the whole car. And yes, it can be enjoyed all along the way.

But generally the budget and time for the whole plan that will ultimately satisfy your happiness should certainly be checked against the realities of your life.

Otherwise, many will be setting themselves up for endless disappointment.
 

NY Twin Turbo

All the good stuff.....Times 2.
Dec 10, 2014
2,475
833
113
47
Westchester NY
My 2 cents... Don't sacrifice comfort for speed.
Yes. Although I still love to drive my car, and have adapted to the changes, I realize today that I didn't have to make compromises. When others have driven it, they are quick to point out it's lack of amenities. A slight miscalculation in my planning that others can use to learn from.
 

ttypewhite

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2001
3,175
490
83
46
Toronto
Yes. Although I still love to drive my car, and have adapted to the changes, I realize today that I didn't have to make compromises. When others have driven it, they are quick to point out it's lack of amenities. A slight miscalculation in my planning that others can use to learn from.
I have learned that lesson too. When I was a teenager, I pulled damn near everything out that made it a decent riding car on the street just for qtr mile performance. Ran like a bat out of hell at the track, but drove like a shit box on the street. As time progressed it irritated me being in it on the street. It was a noisy rattle can with no handling. The last 10 years I have corrected almost everything that I ruined in the past. The only thing left is to get this TH400 out of my car for a 6speed Coyote transmission out of a Mustang and I am exactly where I want to be.
 

Turbo6inKY

Short Guy
Jun 18, 2001
1,423
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Louisville, KY
blog.andrewdscott.com
This is true.....or When you get your ass handed to you by a Hellcat—wish you would have.
That's the thing right there.

Fifteen years ago, it was still possible to be king of the streets in your area with a Turbo Regal and a few modest bolt-ons.

Those days are OVER. When you can walk down to the dealer and buy 700+HP turnkey with a warranty, well, you just can't keep up with that. Those cars cost $60,000+ because that's what it costs to make that kind of power and have the car be reliable. The HellCrate engine is $19K list, and I've found it for $15K out the door.

To make 707hp reliably on a Buick V6, you're probably going to spend at least that much on the engine, and then you have to fortify the entire drivetrain back to the rear tires to not shatter. Plus you'll have to cage it to keep the car from twisting like a Twizzler, which severely compromises the usefulness and comfort of the interior.

The days of putting a set of bluetops on with a chip and a threaded wastegate rod and kicking all ass at the street races are gone. If you really want to keep up with modern hardware, it's going to be expensive, frustrating, and painful.

Or, come to grips with it and either spend the metric boatload of money and effort with your eyes wide open, or move on to a newer platform. I was recenly offered a Second Gen CTS-V modified by WeaponX in Cincinatti. The car made 920hp at the wheels on nitrous and E85 on a safe tune. Full interior. Hop in it with three friends and drive to California with the heated/cooled/massaging seats, ice cold A/C, and a booming stereo.

I could have had it for $35K.

You're not going to build something like that with a V6 Regal for that kind of money. Fast, cheap, good, pick two.
 

turbo39151

anycoloraslongasitsblack
Nov 7, 2002
3,818
167
63
NoVA, in the garage
That's the thing right there.

Fifteen years ago, it was still possible to be king of the streets in your area with a Turbo Regal and a few modest bolt-ons.

Those days are OVER. When you can walk down to the dealer and buy 700+HP turnkey with a warranty, well, you just can't keep up with that. Those cars cost $60,000+ because that's what it costs to make that kind of power and have the car be reliable. The HellCrate engine is $19K list, and I've found it for $15K out the door.

To make 707hp reliably on a Buick V6, you're probably going to spend at least that much on the engine, and then you have to fortify the entire drivetrain back to the rear tires to not shatter. Plus you'll have to cage it to keep the car from twisting like a Twizzler, which severely compromises the usefulness and comfort of the interior.

The days of putting a set of bluetops on with a chip and a threaded wastegate rod and kicking all ass at the street races are gone. If you really want to keep up with modern hardware, it's going to be expensive, frustrating, and painful.

Or, come to grips with it and either spend the metric boatload of money and effort with your eyes wide open, or move on to a newer platform. I was recenly offered a Second Gen CTS-V modified by WeaponX in Cincinatti. The car made 920hp at the wheels on nitrous and E85 on a safe tune. Full interior. Hop in it with three friends and drive to California with the heated/cooled/massaging seats, ice cold A/C, and a booming stereo.

I could have had it for $35K.

You're not going to build something like that with a V6 Regal for that kind of money. Fast, cheap, good, pick two.
^^^
Concur. I've been tempted by the CTS-V as well. Have decided I want to retire early and THEN I can decide if I still want to be owned by such a beast.
 
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