Timing chain, front cover, cam button... Some issues...

[turbo39151]

I decided that I'd get a little work done today. Mostly planned on cleaning everything and checking a fgew things here and there...

Dropped the oil pan since I was gonna do the rear main. Turns out I forgot that I had already done it.:redface:

Then, I removed the front cover since I was gonna swap to a double roller I had sitting on the bench. To my surprise it already had a double with a tensioner. With the tensioner the chain looked good and tight. With the tensioner off the chain was very loose. I checked the tensioner. It looks fine, not all chewed up. However, the upper sprocket had nylon teeth and I figured that this might eventually be an issue so I figured that I'd use my new chain...

Issue number 1: new chain fits nice but sprocket holes don't line up AND the new one is super heavy compared to the older one with the nylon teeth. The new brand is SA gear part number 78129 (Here's the link: http://southwestracingspecialties.com/product.cfm?InvKey=11662 )... And the new chain is heavier and slightly thicker than the older one. The chain is new but was purchased from another board member a few years ago... Not sure why doesn't fit...

Should I just reuse the old chain? Or pop for a new one??


Then there's the front cover... It was filthy so it's gonna get a hot tank bath, new seals and maybe a little port work. My question has to do with the cam button. The original plastic one was pressed into the front cover. I actually had to force it out of the divit it had created... I was going to gring it flat but want to be sure that there's nothing else to look for or do.

Finally, while I was under the engine, I grabbed the ends of the piston rods and checked for movement. The fronts and rears are tight with no movement. The middle two have the slightest movement. Is this a problem? I'm not an expert so I do not know what I'm supposed to expect there.

I'm wondering if I this is the early sign of a worn bearing...

 

[1chance]

If the cam button was that worn, get another, but dont take any metal off that cover, or your cam will walk forward, it depends on what you are doing with your car, if it is a daily driver then the stock replacement will be fine. As far as rod movement, if you had the plugs in they maybe hard to move, but if oil psi was good, and there was no bottom end noise, leave it alone it's fine. Good Luck!

 

[turbo39151]

I have a new cam button in a top secret location that I can't find. So, I have a new one on order...

So, I should not touch the front cover area? No problem. I was thinking about the cam moving as well.

As for the rods, yes I did have the plugs installed. I was concerned with the slight movement even though I've never had any issues with the car and absolutely no knock... I'm glad I don't have to pull the engine.

 

[davidf]

I'm confused. You said the car already has a double roller then you mentioned "nylon sprocket" in the same sentence.If the sprocket is nylon, then it's likely not a double roller and double rollers require "no" tensioner. Sounds like it's OEM. You'll want to use the double roller and ditch the tensioner. You may also want to invest $25 for a roller bearing button.

 

[turbo39151]

You read correctly. It's a double roller and the cam sprocekt is ringed in nylon. Not the stock style thin tooth design but a soild tooth design- the crank sprocket also has a solid tooth design but it is all metal.

By contrast the new chain set is what I normally consider as "standard" in the double rollers with two sets of teeth on both gears...

New button is already on order.

 

[turbo39151]

I guess the big questions here are:

1. Does anyone have experience with SA Gear timing sets?

2. Since this set almost fits with the exception of one of the bolt holes on the cam sprocket, can I, OR Rather should I make the hole bigger so the bolts holes will line up. (Seems like a bad idea to me but I think it should fit with no modifications)

3. Since the old double roller is maybe "old technology" requiring the use of the tensioner should I even bother with it?

4. The old timing set is substantially lighter in weight than the new one. I wonder if the weight benefit outweighs the "old chain" issue... Bear in mind that the old set up is perfectly fine, no issues whatsoever. Was going in mainly for cleaning purposes and figured why not...


Any opinions, ideas, suggestions welcome. I need some of the "experts" to chime in...

 

[TurboDave]

You read correctly. It's a double roller and the cam sprocekt is ringed in nylon. Not the stock style thin tooth design but a soild tooth design- the crank sprocket also has a solid tooth design but it is all metal.

By contrast the new chain set is what I normally consider as "standard" in the double rollers with two sets of teeth on both gears...

New button is already on order.

Double rollers have two rows of teeth on the cam sprocket and crank sprocket, and will definately not have nylon on the cam sprocket. Double rollers are also not very loose at all, and would eat a tensioner in very short order.
What you have described in great detail is a stock setup.

 

[turbo39151]

TurboDave: I know what you're saying. I've seen the stock set up and this is not stock. This IS a non-stock double roller. I knew I should have posted pics... I couldn't really believe it either...

I'll shoot some pics tonight when I get home and post for everyone to see...

 

[turbofabricator]

Post a picture. NO double rollers have nylon sprockets. I have not used SA chains/spockets, so I will not comment. Loose rods/pistons? What direction. Sounds like you need to have an experienced person take a look.

 

[ijames]

With a double roller look at the back side of the chain. If it is smooth like the stocker then you can use the tensioner. If it is the same shape as the front side, all "hilly" (to use a technical term ), then it will saw into the tensioner in short order so you can't use the tensioner.

 

[turbo39151]

My photobucket account is not cooperating

I've been trying to find some pics of a stock T-chain set up. Can anyone post one up?

The last chain I did was 5 years ago. I swear it was different but maybe I'm loosing my mind...:frown:

Anyway, as for the rods, I grabbed the ends to check that the bolts were secure... All the bolts are secure but the center location rod end caps (?) -the parts with the bolts, when I grabbed one it had only the slightest give as opposed to the front and rear which have no give at all.

I don't think it's a problem but wanted to be sure...

As for an "expert" -- I am surely not one, and live in BFE so I'm not close to anyone... Thus, I spend all my time here...

 

[turbo39151]

If I need a new double roller what vendor is selling these reasoanbly... Like I said the last chain I did was 5 years ago... I think it was a cloyes... but it escapes me... Any suggestions?

 

[davidf]

You can buy one in your local area for that matter.

 

[1chance]

Pulled my engine to see if all was good, and also found my double roller chain slack, and one of the teeth missing from the cam gear. We both need new chains, what was that part# for summit?