timing chain project?

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

That bell piece is the oil slinger, it goes on after you install the timing set, small side first so it looks like it gets bigger toward you, then install the timing cover. It goes in before you install the timing cover.

Did you line the timing marks up straight up before you removed the chain??????????

What i do to make sure the chain isnt off one tooth is...

Find top dead center on #1, thats the drivers side front, turn the motor over till air comes out #1 piston...DO THIS WITH THE CHAIN ON!
You dont want to turn the motor over without the chain or you will bend pushrods.

Make sure your timing marks are lined straight up best as possible, then temorarily install the timing cover and balancer to varify the timing mark is at 0° (you are varifying the TDC with the slit in the balancer vs. the timing marks on the timing cover)
so if its notat 0°,,,, then you know its off one tooth on the cam gear... Turn the crank to 0° pull the balancer and timing cover off, and check the gears to see if they are straight up. IF the 2 dots arent lined straight up pull the cam gear off and move the cam left or right to make it straight up.

Now that you have varified you are 100% TDC and the chain is not installed one tooth off, it will be a huge dog if it runs one tooth off...

So install the cam button and oil slinger and install the front cover WITH THE CAM SENSOR WITH SHAFT OUT OF THE TIMING COVER!!!!! :biggrin:

You are now ready to tighten the timing cover, and install the balancer to 219ft/lbs

Now ask me for the directions on how to correctly dial in the cam sensor

HTH
BW :smile:

 

[turbo39151]

Well there's been a few snafu's that I have to deal with.

1. I removed the timing cover agian and have discovered that my new oil pan gasket is too tweaked on one side to re-use So I ordered a new one.

2. The timing marks were nowhere near being aligned on the original chain set and the car ran pretty well. No broken teeth just lots of slack.

3. I have discovered that one of the screw bolt ears on the cam sensor was broken off so I had to order a new one as well.

So, here's my confusion. When I changed my timing belt on my audi, I pulled the belt off and put the new one on. No big deal. I didn't move anything and it was fine. So my question is, if my car ran fine to begin with, I should be able to assume that the timing was spot on, right? If that's the case and the timing marks don't line up, without me moving anything, I should still be ok right?

I talked to John from John's Performance when I ordered the parts and he said to line up the marks and re-set the timing that way. I was just curious about this process. Also, QUICK6'n KC, you say to move the engine to TDC on the number 1 piston with the chain on. Then I align the chain? The way it sits right now is a few teeth off.

I've attached a pic for your review. This is exactly how the old chain came off. BTW, the chain I'm using has an advance and retard option as well as the regular option. I'm on the regular option.

If I were to rotate the engine with the chain on, I fear that it would never align. WTF do I do now???? I don't want to break anything.

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[salvageV6]

It looks like the one white dot will align just fine with the oily dot if you turn the motor over a bit.

I know I'd align them and check for top dead center on the piston before I put it all back together for sure.

It may not be off at all.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

It looks like the one white dot will align just fine with the oily dot if you turn the motor over a bit.

I know I'd align them and check for top dead center on the piston before I put it all back together for sure.

It may not be off at all.

Ditto, it looks like it will be lined up once you rotate the motor CCW to get the marks lined up fine, ONLY IF YOU HAVE ONE GROOVE IN THE CRANK GEAR
Did you get a napa timing kit? Those only have one groove and not 3 separate grooves for -3° 0 and +3°

Your looking good so far!


But i would leave the timing cover off, pull the plugs out, stick your FINGER over #1 spark plug hole turn the motor over till you get PSSSST out of #1 hole, then varify that the dots are lined up.
Now you are ready to VARIFY that the cam is lined up at TDC by temp installing the timing cover, balancer, then check to see if the timing hash mark is at zero...
Oh, cut the oil pan gasket for the 3 small holes off if its distorted, and go buy a can of the right stuff at napa, that silicone is the bombidigidy and i would use it on my own car to seal up the front cover to oil pan surface.

Let me go back and reread your last post
BW

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

So my question is, if my car ran fine to begin with, I should be able to assume that the timing was spot on, right? If that's the case and the timing marks don't line up, without me moving anything, I should still be ok right?

No you wont be OK because you need to reset the cam sensor or else you will be pulling hair out next week when you do this process over again because you failed to do it correctly the first time.

I talked to John from John's Performance when I ordered the parts and he said to line up the marks and re-set the timing that way. I was just curious about this process.

John told you the right way to do it, align the gears and go with it, but you need to do it at TDC #1 and be 100% that its not off a tooth...Remember my temporary installment of the cover and balancer to varify at 0° ?

Also, QUICK6'n KC, you say to move the engine to TDC on the number 1 piston with the chain on. Then I align the chain? The way it sits right now is a few teeth off.

Well im glad i went back and read this, not only do you have it OFF ONE TOOTH, YOU HAVE IT OFF 2 TEETH THEN...
When at 0° your crank timing mark should be pointing straight up. <---IMPORTANT!!!!!

TDC #1,... VARIFY 0° WITH THE BALANCER SLIT TO 0°, THEN SET THE CAM GEAR DOT TO THE CRANK GEAR DOT.

I've attached a pic for your review. This is exactly how the old chain came off. BTW, the chain I'm using has an advance and retard option as well as the regular option. I'm on the regular option.

If I were to rotate the engine with the chain on, I fear that it would never align. WTF do I do now???? I don't want to break anything.

Thanks again for all of the help.

Ok i went and reread, good that your using the standard timing setting on the chain, thats exactly what you need to do.... Your not going to use the tensioner correct?

Your not working on a audi, your working on a buick totally different on how to do this,... You will have to reset the cam sensor when you bolt this back together. :smile:

You need to post less next time, would be alot easier for me :biggrin:

BW

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Later after you button the timing cover back on, when you go to set the cam sensor, you will have to rotate the motor 25° or 1.5 inches CLOCK WISE to set it After Topdead Center.

So with the balancer sitting in your lap, put the side where the intercooler fan goes toward you as if your still looking at the motor.
Put the new timing mark 1.5 inches to the left of the factory timing mark and thats when you need to be to set the cam sensor..

Do you have a cam sensor setting tool or have you looked into getting a LED light and a 9 volt battery?

Pretty simple huh? :biggrin:

BW

 

[turbo39151]

Sorry I'm so wordy Bryan :biggrin:

Again, I appreciate the help.

1. I am using a double roller (pro-gear) from John's Performance (no tensioner)
2. Using Billet Cam Button from John's as well.
3. Still need to get Cam Sensor. (short on funds temporarily... )-$219 from John's

4. I'll turn the engine and see if these dots will line up. If they don't, then do I remove the chain and turn it till it aligns or will this damage valves?

5. Once I have the dots aligned, I then rotate the engine till I have TDC?

I'm still having a hard time understanding the whole deal with the 0 degrees and the little plastic yellow hash mark. Once I put the cover on, how do I verify 0 degrees? (once again please forgive the stupid sounding questions , but I've never done this and I'll only learn if I do it myself.)

Where's the factory timing mark? (John told me to take a hacksaw to my second mark so that I'll never have to measure again.)

 

[petesgn]

I bought the cam sensor from my local auto parts: Standard # PC16 for $52

http://www.rockauto.com/ref/SMP/SMPDetail2.html?PC16.jpg

Rock auto shows it for $46

 

[turbo39151]

Why the huge price discrepancy?? Is there a difference? $46-$219 is quite a stretch...

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

3. Still need to get Cam Sensor. (short on funds temporarily... )-$219 from John's


WHATTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now thats customer service for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I ....never mind...

Same part...
I can NDA you one for 219, how about hand deliver :biggrin:

BW

 

[petesgn]

Why the huge price discrepancy?? Is there a difference? $46-$219 is quite a stretch...

Check this
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180054&highlight=pc16

I dont know why the stretch but i physically verified and its a gm part in the standard box.

Hey Quick6'n'-K.C. whats NDA stand for ?

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Sorry I'm so wordy Bryan :biggrin:

Again, I appreciate the help.

1. I am using a double roller (pro-gear) from John's Performance (no tensioner)

FINE

2. Using Billet Cam Button from John's as well.

NAPA PART YUP

3. Still need to get Cam Sensor. (short on funds temporarily... )-$219 from John's

FOLLOW THE LINK THAT PETE GAVE

4. I'll turn the engine and see if these dots will line up. If they don't, then do I remove the chain and turn it till it aligns or will this damage valves?

(install balancer to turn :wink: ) CCW 2 TEETH SHOULD BE FINE with the chain as it is,and they will line up, just check balancer to see if its at zero, then varify the marks are lined up,

You are on the right track, but there is 4 parts to this....

If the dots are fine, and your at zero, you must varify that your lined up on the compression stroke, YOU should have left the original chain on and found TDC on the compression stroke, lined up the old gears, varified twice and then swapped in the new timing set.

5. Once I have the dots aligned, I then rotate the engine till I have TDC?

Once you have the dots aligned by turning your motor CCW (COUNTER CLOCK WISE)
Install the timing cover, there should be a timing tab on the right hand side with 0°
Let me post some pics for you

I'm still having a hard time understanding the whole deal with the 0 degrees and the little plastic yellow hash mark. Once I put the cover on, how do I verify 0 degrees? (once again please forgive the stupid sounding questions , but I've never done this and I'll only learn if I do it myself.)

Where's the factory timing mark? (John told me to take a hacksaw to my second mark so that I'll never have to measure again.)

BW

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Check this
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180054&highlight=pc16

I dont know why the stretch but i physically verified and its a gm part in the standard box.

Hey Quick6'n'-K.C. whats NDA stand for ?

Next Day Air

I was being as smart arse.. 219 NEXT DAY AIR ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!!!
219, hell i might just hand deliver it for you, hows the weather?? :biggrin:

Im going to post a few pics for him now

BW

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Gears lined up
0°
and 1.5 inches to the left



0° is on the yellowish timing tab to the far right, my pics suck sorry

BW

 

[jhanson1750]

Just got finished reading this whole thread................! The only thing that I will bother you with is leaving the oil unchanged?? When I did my timing chain I saw a little antifreze spill into the pan. I personaly didn't like the idea of it so I did an oil change. Best of luck

 

[turbo39151]

The problem with the oil change was that in my infinite wisdom, I did the oil pan gasket about 2 weeks ago, after I changed my springs. I flushed the engine and added synthetic (ie: not cheap). Since this car is mostly a garage queen, I took her out for about 50 miles or so and then decided that the valve springs had not fixed a dieseling noise I was having. After speaking with a local TR builder, he suggested that I try and swap the timing chain as it might be stretched. Well, it was stretched big time and so that's what I'm working on now. Therefore, I just hate to dump basically new synthetic when there's nothing wrong with it. (I made sure to plug the holes so there wouldn't be any stray debris. That said, I'm gonna have to change it any
way because I F'd up the oil pan gasket and have to order a new one.

Hey Bryan thanks for the pics. I have to secure a cam sensor. Might take a couple of days. I'll post back with pics and progress. Thanks again for the help. (much better than the service manual.)

 

[turbo39151]

Victory is mine!!!!! I finally finished this freakin' project this evening. I even bit the bullet and changed the rear main seal too

Everything went together relatively smoothly and it actually ran! Yippee. I knew it would run but I was concerned as this was sort of a PITA. Nevertheless, it ran and ran well. After a few adjustments I took her out to test and no more dieseling. Car ran strong and seemed very happy.

Thanks again to all who helped me accomplish this task. Now I kinda know what I'm doing...

 

[WHEEZER]

Congrats to you!

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Your welcome

BW

 

[Blown&Injected]

2-4 hour project my arse

I finally got the grungy cover off today. Eveything looked fine except for the 2 pounds of sludge. Since I don't have a parts washer, it took quite a while to get the cover and water pump cleaned and prepped for painting. I like to see what I'm working on

Timing chain was REALLY loose.

Installed a double roller after all and billet cam button. Felpro gaskets.

Anyway got the cover on along with the requisite swearing and it looks ok. However, I have a very thin ring and small bell shaped piece of metal that came off with the crankshaft balancer. (they have the notch in them)

However, it does not seem to go back on unless it goes on the inside?!?
I swear it came off with the balancer.
Did I Fok this up? Please advise. I'll be working on it tomorrow and will attempt to set the cam sensor

Dude, the first reply said you do not need to take the water pump off and to CLEAN it all first.
Glad it all worked out for you