timing chain project?

[Hot Air]

Wasn't a problem with my high mileage motor. I bought my springs from Jack Cotton. Call him. He will hook you up with the right springs.
Conrad

 

[turbo39151]

I called GM today and they tell me that the CAM sprocket is discontinued. The other parts are available for:

Button (supposedly comes with spring): $8.61
Chain: $68.88
Crank Sprocket: $45.50

Where can I get a cam sprocket or do I even need to worry about it?

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Seriously, why bother taking it apart?
If its not broken, dont f-with it... Did you even read my posts above?

Ive done alot of these, you could just buy a double roller timing chain for the price GM wants for 1/2 of the product...

Yeah, there is a reason why GM discontinued the cam gear, the original one has a nylon gear set on a steel gear, it wears out depending on how much you detonate it.

Honestly, dont take it apart unless you have issues with it.

This thread has been going on for 2 months :tongue: for a 2 hour job

Button is 5 bucks at napa with spring and chain with both gears is 23.00

Do a search for napa roller cam button, its better than the factory one.

Post back

 

[turbo39151]

Hey Quick6: I always read all of the posts in detail and I am in agreement with your sentiments. I really do not want to mess with it and that is why this post has been lingering around for a while.

I finally did the valve springs and they helped, but it has been recommended to me by local Buick engine builders that due to the milage of the car, the chain may have stretched and if that is the case it could play havoc with Cam timing which in turn (this is the theory proposed) will cause fuel and or heat issues w/i the cylinders which in turn might be the cause of the dieseling noise I am still experiencing. (see that long post for details). Further, I like this theory because it would explain why when I shoot alky the noise goes away (ie: the cooling properties of the Alky...)

So, THAT is why I'm gonna try this. I can't be that hard, I just want to have all of the info. When I did the valve springs (my first time) I did not know about the seals or the plastic rocker retainers. Therefore, I like to ask tons of questions to make sure that I don't have to make a parts run in the middle of a job. Also, it probably helps other members who are not Buick experts to be able to do some of their own work or diagnose these wierd problems.

I want to thank everyone for their input and help thus far. Pretty soon, I too will become a Buick expert (yeah right!

Thanks again, I'll keep updating as I go...

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Well dont forget about the tensioner.
When the chain stretches over time, the tensioner will make the chain tight.

The only reason why i tell you not to mess with it, is because ive seen alot of higher mileage motors that perform perfectly with stretched chains and they seem to run into the 11s with no issues.. till it breaks.

I didnt see the mileage on your car? Do you guess it at 180 or is it?

F-it, just do it and have fun. :biggrin:
BW

 

[MeanBuicks]

Good advice above , but wait till it breaks before you tear it apart.
If it slips, it might bend pushrods if the heads have been decked.
Thats the worst horror story ive heard about if the nylon gear breaks.
BW

When the last stock timing set I had disintegrated and slipped, at idle, it bent some valves when they crashed into the piston tops.

 

[turbo39151]

I pulled the oil pan last week and the pan looked like new! No bits and pieces not even metal shavings so, that's good news. However, since I'm still battling the dieseling noise I feel that I have no choice but to tackle this project in hopes that the noise is corrected.

As I've stated before, Alky fixes the problem. I just don't want to use alky as a band-aid and have to rely on sufficient alky in order to be able to prowl the streets. The way I figure the motor should be strong w/o supplements (ie: alky, NOS, etc). Those add-ons should be the icing on the cake!

BTW, my odo states 86k. My calculations indcate more like 170k. Actual indicators indicate that the car has less than 100k. (still pulls hard, no odd squeaking etc, feels tight and composed)

I'll post again when I perform this surgery and have results.

 

[turbo39151]

Ok I finally got my timing chain, cam button, and gaskets. I've undone the front 3 oil pan bolts and the water pump bolts. The water pump pulley is still on as well as the crankshaft pulley. I know that bolt is a 28mm but I have no air tools. So, I may try the ghetto style and wedge the breaker under the frame and turn the engine (w/ ecm off of course).

How do I loosen the water pump pulley bolts? Same way?

I though this would be easier. (my Audi was easy) It's a real PITA and messy too. Does the oil filer assembly come off too?

I have the factory manual and it doesn't tell you crap! I've seen pictures before but my cover is so grimy that it's hard to see everything down there. (I'll do a thorough cleaning when I have it off.)

Any suggestions- to make this easier???

TIA

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Pull the entire front cover off with the water pump with pulley, and the oil pump with the filter attached.
If you want to remove the water pump pulley, stick a screwdriver in at a angle to wedge 2 of the bolts, then work on the third bolt to crack it loose.
Same for the next set of bolts, use the screwdriver and wedge on the next set to get the next bolt loose....
I can take a pic if you like.
If you have the dust cover off the trans convertor, then wedge a wooden hammer handle in one of the holes of the flexplate to get the motor so it wont move, then use a 1 1/8th socket with a small 1/2 extension and a breaker bar to break it loose... ghetto like use your jack handle..

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

When the last stock timing set I had disintegrated and slipped, at idle, it bent some valves when they crashed into the piston tops.

If you bent the valves with the stock setup,then your pushrods are stronger than stock and they didnt bend which usually is the first to go.
Just from the ones ive worked on

BW

 

[turbo39151]

Do I have to drain the oil? I just finished the oil pan last week and filled her up with synthetic and have driven about 50 miles. I hate to waste the oil...

I don't want to remove any more than I have to. I'm usually ok with this stuff. I just finished the heads on a buddy's car and it was a piece of cake.
This car will be the death of me...

I'll try the handle trick. I don't have trans dust cover off but that isn't too hard...

If you have any pics available thay are all appreciated. I just don't want to be yanking on stuff and find out that there is a bolt hidden under the gunk that covers the whole cover. (trust me I've wiped all I can)

Thanks for the help Quick6... I really appreciate it...

 

[tom h]

GM Timing Chain part#12537202. GM Bearing type cam button part # 25532588. In case your cam sprocket needs replacing part # 25523115, crank sprocket part # 25519954..

Are these part #s for the all-metal gears??

 

[WHEEZER]

These are part #'s for stock replacements...cam gear is nylon.

 

[turbo39151]

2-4 hour project my arse

I finally got the grungy cover off today. Eveything looked fine except for the 2 pounds of sludge. Since I don't have a parts washer, it took quite a while to get the cover and water pump cleaned and prepped for painting. I like to see what I'm working on

Timing chain was REALLY loose.

Installed a double roller after all and billet cam button. Felpro gaskets.

Anyway got the cover on along with the requisite swearing and it looks ok. However, I have a very thin ring and small bell shaped piece of metal that came off with the crankshaft balancer. (they have the notch in them)

However, it does not seem to go back on unless it goes on the inside?!?
I swear it came off with the balancer.
Did I Fok this up? Please advise. I'll be working on it tomorrow and will attempt to set the cam sensor

 

[turbo39151]

Now that I'm reading more archive posts I wonder if I did this wrong.

(bear with me. This is the first Timing chain I've done. I did a timing belt on my audi with way less hassle and it came out perfect!)...

I removed the cap from the cam sensor but not the cam sensor itself. I did not move the engine at all when I swapped the chain or re-installed the front cover. Have I messed this up? Or can I assume that all of the settings are still the same? I don't want to have to this again.

Anyone?

 

[Hot Air]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that piece goes inside the timing cover!
Conrad Carter

ps...ask me how I know!

 

[turbo39151]

sonofa.....

Is it necessary?

What does that part do? Does the bell housing face the cover? (I suppose it does since if it faced the crank gear it would touch the gear.

ARRRGHH. I though for sure it went on the outside.

Well, I suppose I'll have to take it all out again today and see what I can do.

 

[87GN_70GS]

It's the oil slinger, for oil control, keeps oil off of the front main seal...from the inside.

Don't crank the motor. Without the slinger the balancer will be too close to the timing cover, breaking the crank sensor and/or mount.

 

[turbo39151]

along with this "oil slinger" there is a very this collar or washer. Does it go on the shaft before or after the slinger? And does this slinger face with the bell mouth inwards toward the gear or outward toward the timing cover?

 

[turbo39151]

Nobaody knows??? The factory manual doesn't even mention it!!! I'm checking every archive in an attempt to get this right before trying to do it again.

Please advise.