Timing chain question

[wh1-t]

Gotcha, so I would be better off just ordering a perma-dry, and planning on replacing the whole gasket? I was hoping that I could get away with just the timing cover portion (somehow).

 

[GNONYX]

I posted the picture so you can see and imagine if the oil pan was up and bolted and now you're going to try to slide the timing cover up against the oil pan gasket, not good if you know what I mean. As far the gasket everyone has their own version that works on an individual oil pan.

 

[fastblackracing]

If it has not been mentioned on this post please make sure and check that the threads in the camshaft flange are in good condition, not missing half of the threads and use some loc-tite on the new bolts. There is not much holding the gear on to start with.

 

[GNONYX]

X2 on the loc-tite on the cam bolts
This is up to you of course, but since you are going to replace the oil pan gasket why not look at the oil pump pickup tube screen, and if you do remove the oil pump pick up tube to be clean or replace with new gasket use red loc-tite on both bolts.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

wh1-t, I believe I've given you some bad info concerning TDC #1 and the dots. The thing that rattled the gray matter is your first post where you stated you can line up the oil marks to know which way the cam gear goes on. I didn't realize that stock timing sets aren't keyed.

There is what appears to be a dowel pin hole, but no dowel pin in the cam. Can see that in gnonyx's picture. And the timing set I did was a roller with a key, to which in my mind they are keyed.

So, that being said, since the stock cam gear can go on without regard to TDC #1, you will need to pull a valve cover and check if both valves on #1 cylinder are closed. That will be TDC #1 (firing). If the valves aren't both fully closed then rotate the engine 360* (1 revolution) for TDC #1.

Then go to 25* ATDC and set the cam sensor.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[wh1-t]

Thanks Fast and Onyx, the original bolts left their threads in the cam, and I was able to carefully recover the remains with a pick (and followed up with a tap). The cam threads are nice and clean now. I have new grade 8's of the correct length, and planned on using blue Loctite.

 

[wh1-t]

Thanks RBF, that's kinda what I was getting at in post #17, although my wording was probably off. My set is a double roller, however it is not keyed. I was originally going to rely on the old imprint, but I now realize that I just need to double check everything. I am going to line up the dots now (12 and 6), pull the spark plug, and find the compression stroke on #1. This has been a long process, because I have been removing the old gasket (I don't know what the hell they glued it on with), and doing all of the prep work when I have time. Time is my enemy right now, work is super busy, and I'm getting married in 2 weeks !

 

[GNONYX]

Congratulation on your marriage
Others may chime in but I used red loc-tite on the Cam bolts

 

[wh1-t]

Thanks Onyx! As I typed the word "blue", I thought to myself maybe I should use red? I'm always second guessing myself, I guess. Now with the chain on, and dots at 12 and 6, I spin the engine and get a puff from #1 (when they approach 12 and 6 again). So my TDC (on compression stroke, cylinder #1) is with dots at 12 and 6. From what I have gathered, this is my reference point for setting the cam sensor, when all is reassembled. Please let me know if I am missing anything (again). Thank you guys!

 

[GNONYX]

Thanks Onyx! As I typed the word "blue", I thought to myself maybe I should use red? I'm always second guessing myself, I guess. Now with the chain on, and dots at 12 and 6, I spin the engine and get a puff from #1 (when they approach 12 and 6 again). So my TDC (on compression stroke, cylinder #1) is with dots at 12 and 6. From what I have gathered, this is my reference point for setting the cam sensor, when all is reassembled. Please let me know if I am missing anything (again). Thank you guys!

You know when I did my timing replacement it was easy since all was together, remove the timing cover spin until both dots line up and then check to see if the #1 piston was in the up stroke position. In your situation the Cam sprocket was spinning freely so now you have to make sure you have the #1 piston in the top stroke position, valves closed and both dots line up and then and only then is when you are sure to have TDC.
Remember what RBF said on thread #25: you will need to pull a valve cover and check if both valves on #1 cylinder are closed. That will be TDC #1 (firing). If the valves aren't both fully closed then rotate the engine 360* (1 revolution) for TDC #1.
Don't forget to make the new 25* mark on the Harmonic Balancer as shown on thread #5 before installing it, it makes life much easier.

 

[wh1-t]

Yes, I will pull the stupid valve cover and triple check myself! Thanks for walking me through this guys, sometimes I get a little frustrated with this thing, but I want all to be right with it.

 

[wh1-t]

OK here we go, with valve cover off, and dots originating at 12 and 6. When turning the motor, I begin to get a puff of air when cam gear is at about 4:30, and intake valve closes down. The crank gear comes up to 12, and meets with the cam gear at 6. The exhaust valve then begins to open, at about 7:30 or 8, and the puffing stops of course. Have I found my TDC, I think so? Also, how much play in the chain would be considered tolerable? I know there are lots of opinions of double roller (mine), versus stock (seems like many prefer stock). I wasn't planning on replacing this set (as it has about 5k on it), but just want to be sure.

 

[wh1-t]

To be more descriptive; after turning the motor, and the driver's side of the chain is taught, I can move the passenger side of the chain approx. 1/2" side to side. Is this too much? I have searched and read about oversized gears (+.002,.004, etc.), on double rollers. Will I be safe reinstalling this thing, or do I just need to suck it up and buy a stock set? Thanks guys!

 

[GNONYX]

Many have claimed if you're not making big HP then go with a stock timing chain set up. A least with a stock timing chain you can use a chain tensioner.
I don't have a double roller chain so I can't tell you if the 1/2" movement is acceptable or not. I personally think that would be too much free play
I could be wrong, but I would remove the timing chain, turn the crankshaft until the #1 piston is in the top position and the crank sprocket dot is at 12 0'clock. Move the camshaft until you see both valves on #1 cylinder are closed, and then temporary bolt the Cam Sprocket in place to see if both dots line up.

 

[wh1-t]

Thanks Onyx, that is basically what I have done (post# 32), so I guess the duration of both valves being closed is what I was questioning. The "sweep" of intake valve closing, to exhaust valve opening, is what I was trying to describe in that post.

 

[wh1-t]

Well, I finally got this thing back together, and started it today. Now I have LOUD valvetrain noise! It is coming from both covers. I do have about 65 pounds oil pressure. I have run it for several minutes, and it doesn't seem to be going away. It seems to be running fine (although it was idling high , and the engine was cold). Any ideas? Thanks!!!!!!!

 

[GNONYX]

Did it always sound loud before you replaced the cam bolt?
Are you using a oil pressure gauge and is it accurate?
I think you might have to remove the valve cover and see if the oil is present in the valvetrain.
I wouldn't run it again until you definitively have oil present in the valvetrain.