timing chain

[deezdad]

My 87 T has 172,000 miles on it, runs good but the timing chain broke the other day. Stalled out 1/8 mile from a Buick dealership so knowing I would manage to screw SOMETHING up if I tried the repair myself I decided to let good o'l Mr. Goodwrench take my money. They quoted me $950 to "do the job right". Didn't know what questions to ask at the time as I'm not well versed at all mechanically with these cars beyond the basics. After reading through your archives a bit I'm starting to get the feeling I made a mistake by not thinking this job through a bit more. So my question to you all is before I fork over the dough and accept the car what should have been included with this job and is there anything to look for as far as how the car runs...oil pressure...etc? Ya I'm sure I get the sucker of the week award but I'm hoping there's still time to make some demands...thanks men.

 

[83ttypecooled]

Hi,
Are you sure that's what failed? And only that?At your mileage it's certainly believable, but that's what the Buick boys think, right? Well, as a professional technician, I would say you are looking at 6 hours of labor, parts not included. At my rate, that would be about $400 plus about 300 in parts. Dealers charge more, but you get that Goodwrench feeling. Actually, they are not hurting you too bad by the going rate...
Dale
PS You weren't really dogging the car when this happened, were you? There have been isolated incidents where valves were bent or worse with these engines. I doubt this is the case with yours though....

 

[Ormand]

By "doing it right", they SHOULD mean pulling the pan to gather up any bits and pieces that may have dropped down there. If the little nylon teeth came off the drive sprocket, they could get into the lube system, and cause more damage, for more money. Also should include a check for bent valve/push rods. IF valves got bent price would go up.

 

[rb68rr]

I know it's too late to say this but I'm going to say it anyway.....NEVER but NEVER take your car to a dealership for repairs!!!! Dont ask me how I know. Make sure they prime the oil pump before starting it!!! R.B.

 

[Marc87GN]

Wow, I didn't think it would cost that much, but I worked at a dealer as well for a few years and should know this is what happens. I only have 52K on my GN, but after this post, I'm going to get a replacement chain with steel gears and the rest of the parts which should be about $100 or less and do it over this winter.

 

[deezdad]

Originally posted by 83ttypecooled
Hi,
Are you sure that's what failed? And only that?At your mileage it's certainly believable, but that's what the Buick boys think, right? Well, as a professional technician, I would say you are looking at 6 hours of labor, parts not included. At my rate, that would be about $400 plus about 300 in parts. Dealers charge more, but you get that Goodwrench feeling. Actually, they are not hurting you too bad by the going rate...
Dale
PS You weren't really dogging the car when this happened, were you? There have been isolated incidents where valves were bent or worse with these engines. I doubt this is the case with yours though....

Thanks for reply. I just got off the phone with the garage, heres the deal. They did the timing chain job and put everything back together and the car didn't start. They tore it back down to re-examine what they did and feel confident they did it right. Now they have the top end apart and telling me there's a bent rod or rods. (I'm no mechanic by any means so bear with me). They said they did a compression test and they're getting leaks. They are recommending at this point to send the heads out to a machine shop for further testing and work to be done, thats when I stopped them in their tracks and said I'll get back to them after I digested this crap sandwich and seek some advice (You Guys, thanks). I asked about the pricing and it's the $953 they quoted me for the original timing chain job plus the time they took so far to troubleshoot plus what ever else I have them do if any. HELP! I'm about 70 miles from Cotton's place. ANY and ALL advice welcome...in limbo for now. Thanks. By the way I was mildly taking off from a red light when the car died...about 20 mph or so, no warning signs car was running fine then nothing, upon attempted restart the engine sounded ill.

 

[Lee Thompson]

stop the bleeding!!!

Pay up and get your car out of there. Take it to someone who knows TR.

 

[deezdad]

update

Thanks for replys. Just got back from Goodwrench garage, I saw the bent rods first hand, one is bent pretty good and a couple others slightly. Price is up to $1250 wich includes new timing chain and dismantled top end. Guess the question now is keep going or get that baby home and start researching/planning a re-build. If you were me.......

 

[deezdad]

Originally posted by rb68rr
I know it's too late to say this but I'm going to say it anyway.....NEVER but NEVER take your car to a dealership for repairs!!!! Dont ask me how I know. Make sure they prime the oil pump before starting it!!! R.B.

Coming to a rolling stop almost in front of the joint played a role. The guys in there seem pretty descent. O.K. so how do you know?

 

[deezdad]

Originally posted by Marc87GN
Wow, I didn't think it would cost that much, but I worked at a dealer as well for a few years and should know this is what happens. I only have 52K on my GN, but after this post, I'm going to get a replacement chain with steel gears and the rest of the parts which should be about $100 or less and do it over this winter.

Go for it. Wish I had it in me.

 

[deezdad]

Originally posted by Ormand
By "doing it right", they SHOULD mean pulling the pan to gather up any bits and pieces that may have dropped down there. If the little nylon teeth came off the drive sprocket, they could get into the lube system, and cause more damage, for more money. Also should include a check for bent valve/push rods. IF valves got bent price would go up.

Thanks Ormand. I'm back on the clock after it didn't start up...they then re-checked their work and opened the top end to verify bent rods not as part of the $953 job but on my dime.

 

[deezdad]

Would like to thank Mr. Jack Cotton here. Confused on what to do I called him for advice and he basically assured me these engines are "tough as nails" and just doing the top end should get me going again just fine, this was advice I needed to here as I wasn't sure if I would be wasting time and money by only doing it and not a complete engine re-build. Nice to get good simple advice from such a knowledgable Guy. I assured him that if and when it comes time for lower end re-build I would be coming to see him as I'm only an hour from his place. So to keep things simple I called Goodwrench and gave them the go ahead to proceed with fixing the engine, blind faith at this point, don't even know wich machine shop they're using but for me it didn't make sense to box up all the dismantled parts and have the car towed out of there to another garage just to finish what was already started. If anyones interested here I'll post again with total price and how the car runs.

 

[rb68rr]

Can't wait to hear the end of this story! Hope it turns out better than mine did. Good Luck, R.B.

 

[deezdad]

Just wondering should I expect to see less Knock on the ScanMaster after previously described timing chain and cylinder/valve job. Previously If I was cruising 60-70 mph on the highway and gave it just moderate throttle I would see Knock, was very frusterating. Yes the car is set up and tuned properly, or at least I thought it was.

 

[rb68rr]

How about an update on your car?

 

[deezdad]

How ah ya...(new england speak) Havn't heard nothin yet hopin' no news is good news...Getting antzy though will probably call tomorrow, getting tired of peeling out with my ZQ8 Sonoma! Have 2500 hard earned $$ ready though...sucks. So back to my question, can I expect to see better performance/ less knock etc...with new timing chain and re-built top end (by the almighty Mr. Goodwrench) I know this question sounds stupid to all you gurus but I got no freakin clue. Any particular scanmaster readings or visual checks I should do before tearing off and handing over my left arm?

 

[Turbo1dr]

You should see a few HP improvement but probably not whole lot. Better throttle response most likely because the old worn timing chain had your cam "retarted". If the heads have never had a valve job done before, they were in need of one at that mileage. This alone will allow the compression to stay in the cylinders and not leak out through leaky valves and thus give you more power.

 

[deezdad]

Thanks Turbo1dr, think this is what was causing the knock while mildly accelerating from cruising speed on the highway??

 

[deezdad]

Goodwrench called me and said the machine shop has my engine and it will need to have heads re-surfaced and new exhaust valves. Any advice on anything else I should have done to it while the engine is pulled...has 172,000 untouched miles on it. Only thing I specified was 100lb springs, anything else?

 

[rb68rr]

Have you gotten your car back yet? Is it ok?