timing chain

[rb68rr]

How about an update?

 

[deezdad]

Got the car back on Friday, it had to sit at the dealership for a few weeks because I couldn't come up with all the money. Total job was $2540 to repair timing chain, re-surface heads, install new push rods, exhaust valves and springs. Labor= $1165, parts= $952, machine shop= $325 + $100 tax and miscelaneous. Labor rate was $72 per hour. Car was running good up until heading to Cape Cod yesterday. Was doing about 70mph crankin tunes when it started running shaky, looked down at scanmaster and saw all kinds of knock with VERY LOW rpm then heard major rap from engine. Pulled off highway popped hood, didn't really see anything wrong...oil and coolant looked good so I drove it slowly on back roads back to dealership and left the keys in drop box. Called them this morning they hadn'nt got to it yet said they would call but no message when I got home. It really was running good everything seemed to be happening faster than what I was used to, drove it for 200 miles over the long weekend then it broke. Definantly didn't beat on it but can't say I babied it either, pushed it a bit a couple times for descent accelaration but that was it. Still had a ton of knock and rap while driving slow back to dealership... what do you think this could all mean?

 

[rb68rr]

Man oh man, does that sound too familiar. Do a search on my user name about timing chains and you will see what I mean! Dealers SUCK!!! R.B.

 

[deezdad]

Wholey crap rb68rr... thats eerie. Hope it ain't set in stone that if the dealer fixes these cars they'll never run good again. Man if I knew this crap before hand I would have paid Jack Cotton to drive to my car (90 minutes) bring it back to his place and do the job himself. Well havn't heard anything yet (day 2) from stealership...

 

[rb68rr]

Have you heard any more from the dealership about what went wrong with your car? Let me guess........bearings! Sure hope they gave you some kind of warranty! R.B.

 

[deezdad]

Just heard from the Goodwrench today, they tell me I spun the #1 bearing. They told me it going had nothing to do with the work they did previously accept for the fact it made that bearing a weak link. They quoted me $2,240 to install new crank, new #1 connecting rod, all new main bearings and new oil pump and screen. I told him I'd get back to him... need to seek advice from you guys. Does this sound right? Should it be Warantee work? Should I pull it out of there? Should I do any thing else to it while it's going through this??? Thanks.

 

[TIMS87GN]

Holy ****! Sorry to hear of your bad luck. My friend bought a WE4 with a dealer built engine with less than 1500 miles on it I think. It failed after his first night at the track in stock trim! Turns out they didn't know what they were doing. For one, they put a double roller timing chain in it with the stock tensioner! The oil pump had low oil pressure which he didn't know of because he had not installed a oil gauge yet. Tore up every bearing in it!

Lesson: Never let anyone but a TR knowledgable person touch your car!

Now back to you, I'm not surprised they are weaseling out of responsibility. If the work was done by them, including installation, then it is on them in my book! Raise hell with them. Demand they compensate you for the total cost of a rebuild and if they give you flack, get a lawyer! They know it is their fault, and are hoping that you will let them off the hook!

Sorry to hear about that. That crap makes me mad!
Good luck!

 

[jpratt]

That sounds almost excatly what happened to my car last year. Listen to the ones that have been there. TAKE IT TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS TR. Jack Cotton knows his stuff. Keep it away from the dealership. I got my money back from the dealership and then paid an expert to fix the crap they messed up. TAKE IT TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THESE ENGINES. You might have to wait but better off you will be.

 

[Browndog]

I have almost the exact same story. I had the head gaskets on my GTA replaced at a GM dealership. My engine failed roughly a week later. The engine autopsy revealed that the inexperienced tech that did the work used far too much silicone. The silicone broke loose and filled the oil pump pickup which caused the mass carnage.

Get the car away from the dealership if you havn't already.

 

[corsair231]

Sorry about your misfortune. My car is currently going through some troubles of its own similar to yours. There is one thing I want to bring to your attention. Lifter prelaod. If you have had any surfacing done on the heads or block you need to make sure it is still in specs. How do I know? Had my engine done by a professional. His engines are in many of the fastest street cars in this part of the state. Block was decked and heads surfaced (not shaved). Car idled horribly despite a mild cam and being balanced. It would shake the whole car. Ran great though. It started to deteriorate after a couple of months. I tore it apart and found that I had wiped two lobes on the cam. I happened to find an article on the comp. cams website about lifter prelaod. After I installed my new cam I checked my preload and it was waaay out of spec (too much, which according to the article can cause poor idle). The stock push rods were now too long for the engine and nobody makes a shorter pushrod for these things. I didn't have the money to step up to roller rockers so I had to hit the parts books pretty hard. After some trial and error I came up with a set of 460 Ford push rods that are now in my engine. Face it most 3.8's get turned into boat anchors and don't get rebuilt and if my machinist had been familiar with them then maybe it would not have cost me a cam. Point is, make sure the machine shop takes only enough material off to straighten the head and they don't try the old school trick of shaving the head to increase compression, which these cars do not need anyway, and have them to check lifter preload to make sure it is in specs. As far as doing anything else to the head short of porting it you may want them to machine the exhaust valves to use valve stem seals, especially if you have a high volume oil pump.

 

[QuickWrench]

Just heard from the Goodwrench today...They quoted me $2,240 to install new crank, new #1 connecting rod, all new main bearings and new oil pump and screen...

I'd like to know where they're going to get a new GM crank. Whatever you do, I'd find out about that.

 

[2QUIK6]

I would find it very difficult to beleive that you spun a bearing just cruising down the road with no hard high revving accelleration. If the heads were machined, they would have had to use different length pushrods since the rockers on these cars are fixed mounted on a rail.

On the bent valve that supposedly happend before....I thought these engines could not have any valve to piston contact as long as the valve springs did not break??? I thought there was enough valve clearance with a stock cam that this was impossible.

Do not pay the dealer another cent, take it to Cotton. Since the cranks are no longer available, they'll probably end up putting a 231 NA crank in it!

 

[deezdad]

Thanks very much for the feed back. I did ask them about the crank being a new gm part specific to the 3.8 turbo and they said they get all there parts by vin #. I definantly have way more to learn than what I know about these cars so here are some dumb questions: If I let them do the work (crank, #1 connecting rod, main bearings, oil pump/screen) would I be creating any more weak links? (engine has 172,000 miles on it original, unabused, mobil 1 since new...) If I don't go that route with them and pull it out of there I would probably bite the bullet (HARD) and have it done right. Problem is I don't know what's included in doing it right. A reliable stock rebuild would be fine, using the bolt ons I already have for extra pull. Educate this turbo engine rebuild virgin... thanks in advance. Dan.

 

[rb68rr]

Dan, trust me on this one...........You are exactly halfway into the nightmare that I went through with a G.M. dealership. STOP RIGHT NOW and take your car to Jack Cotton or I'm afraid you will be disapointed even more if you continue to let these morons work on it. I would try my damndest to make them pay for their screw-ups so far, but the main thing is to get your car out of there!!!!! Good luck, R.B.

 

[2QUIK6]

I'm with rb68, just because they are a "dealer" does not mean they know what's best for your TR. I bet most of the techs there have never worked on one. Since you are only 1 hour from Jack Cottons shop. I would without hesitation take it to him. Have no idea on pricing for his work, but I bet you'd have a tons better job, and I don't think it would be much more if any than the dealer is going to charge you already. I'm 1500 miles away for Jack, yet I've met him on several occassions, he even came to our DFW Buick racing event 5 or 6 years ago, great stand up guy...you aren't goign to get that from the dealer.

 

[GANGSTER]

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[GANGSTER]

I have been following this story and I didnt realize you were only 1 hour from cottons. This is a no brainer....and I work in a dealership!!!!!
Get the car out of there and cut your losses with the dealer.
rent a trailer from u haul and drag it there yourself,then you can meet the T/R guru in person. Then listen to whatever he tells you even if it means being without the car longer and spending a little more money.
This is not a job that you want to do twice, The dealer should never have done a band aid job on the motor with that kind of mileage.
Do it right this time and enjoy worry free miles later,otherwise you will never be confident enough to take it farther than the corner store. just my .02

 

[p.dow]

cotton

cotton

 

[rb68rr]

Any good news on your bad situation?