To all guys running ATR style China Headers...

[b_rich24]

Yet they were 800 plus dollars and mild steel.

I must be missing something, but I thought mild steel is better for our application over stainless steel. Isn't SS more susceptible to cracking (from heat)? As long as the mild steel is coated, the main factor (corrosion) is greatly eliminated (like Stainless). Right? Doesn't mild steel handle heat cycles better? For longer?


Someone please chime in on this. I'm curious to know the benefits (aside from corrosion) of SS over mild steel.

 

[Bweavy]

I'm not out to derail you or your product. I'm just totally fed up the the crap that coninuously comes out of China, and I'm also convinced that it's entirely deliborate on their part.

They don't give a tinkers da** about us, safety or anything.
Most notably the safety recalls!! Lead paint, poisoned pet food, poisoned people food, tires that explode for no reason(recent recall), most recently automotive fuses that cause vehicle fires (they don't blow when required).

It's been stated publicly and privately by many Chinese in senior government roles that their privately stated goal is to destroy the American economy. They will do it as subtley or openly as they are able to get away with.

We see it every day, especially in the monitary market.

Ya'll can keep spending your money with them if you like. Personally I will not knowingly by ANYTHING from China, and will continue to do whatever research needed to avoid doing so.

They are literally trying to kill us and our economy, and we, like lemmings just keep on bying thier crap.

What really burnt my ass last week was the Mattel recall. A local news group went down 3 days later to Wal Mart & they hadn't removed the items yet. They actually purchased the recalled product & put it on the news.

 

[vader87]

What really burnt my ass last week was the Mattel recall. A local news group went down 3 days later to Wal Mart & they hadn't removed the items yet. They actually purchased the recalled product & put it on the news.

I know what you mean! Picked these up at the PX today, 9-11-07.

Sam, thanks for having the headers made. I am trying these headers because I don't have $900 for TA Headers. So far I have not seen ANYONE make good headers. They all need work. I am willing to risk $300 but not $900!

 

[Chuck Leeper]

"I have seen an of old atr, and they look the same as mine. They even used the "wimpy" clamps that are in my kit. Yet they were 800 plus dollars and mild steel. I looked at the welds, and they were of the same quality and some weren't."

I ran a set of the "old ATR'S" for many yrs, and had absolutely ZERO problems w/ them.
1. Did NOT crack.
2. Were stainless, NOT m/s.
3. Had first class welds on them.
4. Had the hi quality split flange connectors.
4. Fit the heads, both cast irons from Ruggles, and the Champs.
5. Were used on the 109 engine, and on my stage 2.
Only mod I performed was to weld the x-over 100%.
These headers included the DP, and the external gate. The gate was JUNK, and was replaced w/ 1 from Innovative.

AFIK,At least 10 yrs later, these headers are still in use on a rosewood T type..

For the guy asking about m/s vs s/s for headers. S/S is more widely used in turbo applications, as it's more durable at elevated temps, and when welded properly, will outlast m/s headers.
IMO, cheap s/s[stock headers] is not much better than m/s. If I were to do a header project, they'd be of 321, and not 304 material. The welds would be done w/ argon purge inside the pipes, for much cleaner interior joints.
AND, they'd NOT be $300 a set, either.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Looks to me..

Here you can see where the 1400 is kinda off. Hopefully I want run into trouble fithis 1400 fits my exhaust ports perfectly on the head but does not line up with the header!

as tho the #5 port, and the tube are off location. [In looking at the bolt holes]???
If so, how does 1 "massage" that back to shape??

 

[SAMBALLS1]

I'm not out to derail you or your product. I'm just totally fed up the the crap that coninuously comes out of China, and I'm also convinced that it's entirely deliborate on their part.

They don't give a tinkers da** about us, safety or anything.
Most notably the safety recalls!! Lead paint, poisoned pet food, poisoned people food, tires that explode for no reason(recent recall), most recently automotive fuses that cause vehicle fires (they don't blow when required).

It's been stated publicly and privately by many Chinese in senior government roles that their privately stated goal is to destroy the American economy. They will do it as subtley or openly as they are able to get away with.

We see it every day, especially in the monitary market.

Ya'll can keep spending your money with them if you like. Personally I will not knowingly by ANYTHING from China, and will continue to do whatever research needed to avoid doing so.

They are literally trying to kill us and our economy, and we, like lemmings just keep on bying thier crap.

Dave, you do know that the US economy has done it to itself. We sold all our raw material to china, and as we speak they are buying up all the concrete also. Its a vicious cycle. But China does own a majority of all the raw steel in the world.

Every manfacturer whether it be foreign or domestic has issues.... Look at all all the cars that Ford has put recalls on because of improper manufacturing. ie. .Ford Recalls | 2007 New Ford Car Recalls, Defects, & Safety Problems at Automotive.com

I am in no way, shape or form trying to attack or say that we (U.S) are uncapable of producing a product. Just saying people, countries, governments, companys ect.. make errors and best thing to do is try and correct them!

 

[SAMBALLS1]

as tho the #5 port, and the tube are off location. [In looking at the bolt holes]???
If so, how does 1 "massage" that back to shape??

Please visit http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge.../227785-ta-style-china-headers-nice-pics.html to see how they can be massaged to shape!

 

[TurboDave]

Dave, you do know that the US economy has done it to itself. We sold all our raw material to china, and as we speak they are buying up all the concrete also. Its a vicious cycle. But China does own a majority of all the raw steel in the world.

Every manfacturer whether it be foreign or domestic has issues.... Look at all all the cars that Ford has put recalls on because of improper manufacturing. ie. .Ford Recalls | 2007 New Ford Car Recalls, Defects, & Safety Problems at Automotive.com

I am in no way, shape or form trying to attack or say that we (U.S) are uncapable of producing a product. Just saying people, countries, governments, companys ect.. make errors and best thing to do is try and correct them!

Well, I guess if you feel comfortable in your mind at what the Chinese are openly trying to do to us, our children and our economy then there's not much else I can say to convince you otherwise.
I personally couldn't care less if they as a manufacturing entity are "having issues". That facts are, they are peddling their so called issues on us in a deliberate attempt to ruin our economy, and our people.
Believe what you will.
Sell what you will.

I will buy American, and I will also buy from many other trusted foreign entities, but not knowingly from China.
They have so far shown that they are NOT to be a trusted producer of anything other than the most basic items, and very little of that.

 

[Warp6]

I hope you checked the port alignment before you put them on! The bolt holes would line up fine but look at the port alignment on the end tube! This was the same on each side. These will require additional welding and grinding to get them matched properly.

Man, that's what I was screamin' here! They don't line up worth a crap. If the Fel-pro's match your head ports but do not match your header ports - duh! - you have a problem. Nobody was listening then! (see post #30)Geez, how hard is that to figure out?? Part of the port is blocked. How do you think that is for performance?http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/217664-ebay-stainless-steel-header-install-pics.html#post1572095

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Man, that's what I was screamin' here! They don't line up worth a crap. If the Fel-pro's match your head ports but do not match your header ports - duh! - you have a problem. Nobody was listening then! (see post #30)Geez, how hard is that to figure out?? Part of the port is blocked. How do you think that is for performance?http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/217664-ebay-stainless-steel-header-install-pics.html#post1572095

which style header are you refering too!

 

[Warp6]

I'm now referring to both styles. I was originally referring to the TA version. Now since Turbo1dr has shown pics of the ATR style, it appears both styles have the same misalignment issues.

 

[Turbo1dr]

I'm now referring to both styles. I was originally referring to the TA version. Now since Turbo1dr has shown pics of the ATR style, it appears both styles have the same misalignment issues.

Same flanges...same tubing...same type of welds but different styles. It appears that all the different companies supplying the finished product bought the flanges from the same company that cut them. So there goes the theory about the so called "different brands" of headers.

 

[ThatDamGoldCar]

T/A STYLE=I run fully ported champion irons with a 1400 felpro gasket.They do not line up perfect for me.I had to take the dremel and open the tops of the header ports(about 1/4inch material removed) to match my gasket(Felpro 1400)that fits perfect to my heads.Cut the gaskets into three pieces and everything lines up fine.Also the turbo mounting flange is cocked a little.Just elongate the holes a bit and you can make it fully adjustable and sit the turbo how you want depending on your downpipe/motor mount situation.Its not rocket science,just a little work(which most people can't do)and these things fit,and look great.I will be running a 3.5 external gate CHINA downpipe when they come out soon........Spending $1000 on a set of headers is crazy,i've bought whole turbo buick cars for that much....Thanks Sam for all your help

 

[Turbo1dr]

Just because everyone talks junk about the China headers I figured I'd post some USA made headers.

Here's some pictures of my GENUINE ATR's. How do you like how those round ports line up with square ones on the heads? The second picture shows how I had to modify them to make them fit the heads also.

 

[ThatDamGoldCar]

I used to run those lol....nice pics....

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Just because everyone talks junk about the China headers I figured I'd post some USA made headers.




Thank you! I appreciate your info.

 

[PaCemkr86]

Turbo1dr

lol.. i love reading your posts

 

[Blazer406]

This is the picture I refer to above:

For you fabrictors in the crowd (of which I'm not one), would this be the kind of work you would be proud of?? Just a question.

Doesn't look like they purged the header when the welded the root pass.

 

[BurNrubR]

Feed back

So has anyone installed a set from SAM yet? How do they fit? Did anyone use studs?

 

[PaCemkr86]

So has anyone installed a set from SAM yet? How do they fit? Did anyone use studs?

yes and yes.. pics in sig link