To all guys running ATR style China Headers...

[Bweavy]

Have you installed yet? If so how was the fit? I am waiting to install mine when time allows.

I first went through & checked the welds.
Very nice welds.
Secondly checked for slag. Very minimal.

I saw this post & checked the gaskets compared to our copper SCE gaskets.
The gasket supplied with Sam's headers are the exact same dimensionally as the T/A gaskets. The T/A's are opened wider then Sam's.
I held up the T/A gasket to a set of heads & they are right on.
So this put a question in My header what isn't lining up?

I remember last week with a pair of Mild Steel T/A's I welded around the outside of the pipes & ground the flange down for a better fit.
Then I looked at Sam's & that is what is going to have to happen as well here.Nice thing is Sam's are already welded on the outside so that leaves plenty of meat to grind into.

This is what I'll be doing tonight.
I lined up # 3 cylinder with the gasket.
On #1 & #5 cylinder you will see that 3/16" will have to be ground down on the flange.
This will not be a problem because you are grinding away the flange not the actual pipe.
I'll take some pics & document it. Not really a big deal since I had to do the same thing to the T/A's to get the look I wanted. On the average very good port job neither would have to be touched & would not restrict exhaust flow.

I'll take some pics tonight & work on the driver's side header. I'll do a comparison of the gaskets. Then the amount of grinding.

 

[Louie L.]

Well I got around to cleaning up my headers today and ending up usingthegasket supplied since the Felpro 1400 would not line up as well as the one provided however the 1400 may line up better on the head. As you can see I used some hitemp red to hold the gasket in place after I cut it and hopefully I will be able to ust screw in the studs and slide the header on. "TURBO1DR" The same port you have pictured is the same one I just took a port bit too and fixed wasn't that much to take away.

I see a gasket replacement in your future. Those perforated metal gaskets dont last long. The 1400 is the way to go. I have used 1400 and reused them several times. Everytime I pull them off a car I keep em because they will seal up even on a second time install.

 

[Boost231]

use the 1400. i have ran a set on my car for over 8 years with no leaks.

 

[RUQWKNF27]

Wel I wanted to use the 1400 but the gasket did not line up with the header ports! I guess i could have trimmed it to fit. I think Ialso I went with the other gasket is becaus eit was thicker and looked like it would seal better. I did research the 1400 and everyone was pleased with it. Well maybe I will just "now" scrape the old gasket off and scrape the now a lot stiffer hi temp red sealant off and redo the same way with the 1400 since I do not want to have to remove these headers to replace a gasket.

 

[Turbo1dr]

Wel I wanted to use the 1400 but the gasket did not line up with the header ports!

No no, always check to see if the gasket lines up with the exhaust ports of the HEADS first. Then modify your headers to fit the gaskets.

 

[Turbo1dr]

Wait a minute...in those pictures you posted...do I see where you cut the gasket between the #2 and #4 cylinders & #3 and #5 to get the holes to line up?

 

[RUQWKNF27]

Yes I had to cut a small bit out right there like a 1/4" so the ports on the gasket would line up on the ports on the headers. Looks like now I will test fit the 1400's to the exhaust ports on the heads and then go ffom there. So basically I waster a hr today fiddling with these gaskets!

 

[at7we2]

What next?

I'm not quite understanding how China's mass production system works, are they using crayon outlined construction paper for templates and cardboard for jigs?

yes. and lead-based paint. the bottom line is, these foreign rip-off artists don't care one hoodle-dee-doo about you, the customer. they don't care about your health, safty, or certainly not about how your car runs.

IMO, Chinese manufacturers make unsafe, sub-standard junk..period. Furthermore, they crank out this garbage in unsafe factories using dangerous processes. That's my opinion, you don't have to agree. But that's based on my numerous experiences with Chinese products - everything from tools, nuts, bolts, clothes, electronics, toys, you name it - junk. Unfortunately, China is not the only source of this kind of stuff, but they are the most conspicuous at the moment.

/rant mode off

 

[Rampage]

Why don't one of the vendors here "Bweavy" take 5 sets clean them up, port match them and charge an extra $20 or $30 bucks and resell them. If I had the time or skill I'd do it. To me, it would be a win-win situation. Cheap headers that fit...Just be honest where they came from, I wouldn't expect a warranty, Just the fact they would fit would be good enough for me. My original headers from the factory look like swiss cheese, so if I could get another 5-8 years from replacements I'd be happy...It's not like we have many inexpensive options out there.

Just my opinion...

 

[Louie L.]

Most race parts have to be modified anyways . I dont understand the problem. I had to modify my 850.00 ATR's years ago.

And not all of the import stuff is junk. Its so easy for every one to jump on the bandwagon but people still buy it.

On the subject of BWEAVY buying a bundle and modifying them for x tra money. Thats all good and well until some cheap ass wants a group buy or something of the sort. In my opinion 20-30 bux doesnt come even close to cover the time and agravation invested in port matching.

 

[Rampage]

LouieL, in your opinion what would be a fair price to check and mod as required? Keeping in mind a vendor has to support his business and make a profit...

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Most race parts have to be modified anyways . I dont understand the problem. I had to modify my 850.00 ATR's years ago.

And not all of the import stuff is junk. Its so easy for every one to jump on the bandwagon but people still buy it.

On the subject of BWEAVY buying a bundle and modifying them for x tra money. Thats all good and well until some cheap ass wants a group buy or something of the sort. In my opinion 20-30 bux doesnt come even close to cover the time and agravation invested in port matching.

I agree. . . Bweavy spent a good amount of time on http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge.../227785-ta-style-china-headers-nice-pics.html to get the driver side to look the way it did. He didn't have to re-weld anything, but it DOES take lots of time and dedication to do it! Most people who want to get the absolute most out of their parts do this anyways. It's hard to find a part that doesn't need to be opened up or modified in some way to extract all the HP (juice) out of it:biggrin: . You definately want to get your money's worth out of any product you buy! How many times has someone bought a products and thought "I bet if I do this it will do xxxx better." I know I have! It's like getting a great set of heads Like TAPERFORMANCE or Champion Aluminum. and porting them out... You want to squeeze all the juice out so it will perform the best. Cost a little more, but It's well worth the sweat!

 

[RUQWKNF27]

All this talk of juice is making me thirsty!


Looks like I have more porting to do!

 

[TurboDave]

yes. and lead-based paint. the bottom line is, these foreign rip-off artists don't care one hoodle-dee-doo about you, the customer. they don't care about your health, safty, or certainly not about how your car runs.

IMO, Chinese manufacturers make unsafe, sub-standard junk..period. Furthermore, they crank out this garbage in unsafe factories using dangerous processes. That's my opinion, you don't have to agree. But that's based on my numerous experiences with Chinese products - everything from tools, nuts, bolts, clothes, electronics, toys, you name it - junk. Unfortunately, China is not the only source of this kind of stuff, but they are the most conspicuous at the moment.

/rant mode off

FOR SURE!!

They've already tried killing off many or our pets with the tainted pet food (although it amazes me the junk people will buy to save a buck).

They're now going after our babies with lead based paint.

Tainted food.

Absolute crap for automotive parts.

Personally, I have nothing against people wanting to save money, especially in this day and age, but the extent that some go to is puzzling at times. Foresaking persanal safety, life and limb, etc. Granted, that's not the case here, but I disagree with the notion that one always has to "massage, or rebuild" something for it to work as advertised or even work as expected.


These latest headers were supposed to be "fixed", but it's obvious they weren't built to match the heads.
And that latest picture that SAM posted looking up into the passenger side header indicates they still haven't figured out how to make the hole in the log pipe match the size of the header tube welded over it. It looks like the hole was made with a whole bunch of little "drill outs" and is for sure a lot smaller than the tube weld you see around it.


I keep wondering when people learn what's going on over there, and who their target is.

 

[TurboDave]

This is the picture I refer to above:

For you fabrictors in the crowd (of which I'm not one), would this be the kind of work you would be proud of?? Just a question.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

This is the picture I refer to above:

For you fabrictors in the crowd (of which I'm not one), would this be the kind of work you would be proud of?? Just a question.

Turbodave, I'm not one to make any derog statments, but so you know, I have seen an of old atr, and they look the same as mine. They even used the "wimpy" clamps that are in my kit. Yet they were 800 plus dollars and mild steel. I looked at the welds, and they were of the same quality and some weren't. (Actually the welds look a little better on mine) If the product does not suite your standards You are not forced to buy it. There are plenty of members that are very happy with them. I always try to go above and beyond to make sure customers are happy, and correct any problems they may encounter and never charge them for it. (Keep in mind this is coming out of my pocket) I'm not selling these headers for 1000 dollars.

I also have a set of Origional TA's and they still need some work to get them perfect. They can still be cleaned out and ported and still have issues like mine!

Here's something for you to ponder on for a while, If i'm selling them for 300 dollars, just how much profit do you think I am making. It's definately not $299. I'm not getting rich like the some of the vendors of the past that have faded away. You can't even make them in the STATES for that! I'm just trying to offer an affordable product to those that don't have the capacity to spend thousands of dollars on something they love! Just my opinion!

 

[JDSfastGN]

Turbodave, I'm not one to make any derog statments, but so you know, I have seen an of old atr, and they look the same as mine. They even used the "wimpy" clamps that are in my kit. Yet they were 800 plus dollars and mild steel. I looked at the welds, and they were of the same quality and some weren't. (Actually the welds look a little better on mine) If the product does not suite your standards You are not forced to buy it. There are plenty of members that are very happy with them. I always try to go above and beyond to make sure customers are happy, and correct any problems they may encounter and never charge them for it. (Keep in mind this is coming out of my pocket) I'm not selling these headers for 1000 dollars.

I agree completely. I spent the money on SS ATRs years ago and they were terrible for the money. In fact they cracked so many times that ATR finally sent me a new set. These were slightly better but i have had to have them welded twice on each side. I would much rather spend 300-400 on headers and have to put a little more effort into them.

 

[Bweavy]

Most race parts have to be modified anyways . I dont understand the problem. I had to modify my 850.00 ATR's years ago.

And not all of the import stuff is junk. Its so easy for every one to jump on the bandwagon but people still buy it.

On the subject of BWEAVY buying a bundle and modifying them for x tra money. Thats all good and well until some cheap ass wants a group buy or something of the sort. In my opinion 20-30 bux doesnt come even close to cover the time and agravation invested in port matching.

Thanks LL I think $200 would be a pretty good estimate. Tore the crap out of my carbide bit. Nothing on aluminum & not bad on steel but stainless is a mutha!

 

[Bweavy]

Why don't one of the vendors here "Bweavy" take 5 sets clean them up, port match them and charge an extra $20 or $30 bucks and resell them. If I had the time or skill I'd do it. To me, it would be a win-win situation. Cheap headers that fit...Just be honest where they came from, I wouldn't expect a warranty, Just the fact they would fit would be good enough for me. My original headers from the factory look like swiss cheese, so if I could get another 5-8 years from replacements I'd be happy...It's not like we have many inexpensive options out there.

Just my opinion...

The problem is if we sell it we have tested it & we do stand behind it.
If you need a job just drop me an e-mail I need employees pretty bad with our demand.

 

[TurboDave]

Turbodave, I'm not one to make any derog statments, but so you know, I have seen an of old atr, and they look the same as mine. They even used the "wimpy" clamps that are in my kit. Yet they were 800 plus dollars and mild steel. I looked at the welds, and they were of the same quality and some weren't. (Actually the welds look a little better on mine) If the product does not suite your standards You are not forced to buy it. There are plenty of members that are very happy with them. I always try to go above and beyond to make sure customers are happy, and correct any problems they may encounter and never charge them for it. (Keep in mind this is coming out of my pocket) I'm not selling these headers for 1000 dollars.

I also have a set of Origional TA's and they still need some work to get them perfect. They can still be cleaned out and ported and still have issues like mine!

Here's something for you to ponder on for a while, If i'm selling them for 300 dollars, just how much profit do you think I am making. It's definately not $299. I'm not getting rich like the some of the vendors of the past that have faded away. You can't even make them in the STATES for that! I'm just trying to offer an affordable product to those that don't have the capacity to spend thousands of dollars on something they love! Just my opinion!

I'm not out to derail you or your product. I'm just totally fed up the the crap that coninuously comes out of China, and I'm also convinced that it's entirely deliborate on their part.

They don't give a tinkers da** about us, safety or anything.
Most notably the safety recalls!! Lead paint, poisoned pet food, poisoned people food, tires that explode for no reason(recent recall), most recently automotive fuses that cause vehicle fires (they don't blow when required).

It's been stated publicly and privately by many Chinese in senior government roles that their privately stated goal is to destroy the American economy. They will do it as subtley or openly as they are able to get away with.

We see it every day, especially in the monitary market.

Ya'll can keep spending your money with them if you like. Personally I will not knowingly by ANYTHING from China, and will continue to do whatever research needed to avoid doing so.

They are literally trying to kill us and our economy, and we, like lemmings just keep on bying thier crap.