To Stroke or not to Stroke?

1987 Grand National

New Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
I recently purchased another 109 long block. I'm trying to decide whether to go with a forged stock stroke or stroker. I am looking at the kits from GN1. Is there really any down side to stroking with a 109 block? I understand maybe a little less rpm. Is there any major block clearancing that needs to be done? (I intend to do a girdle) Bad rod angles? I saw different rod lengths, how should I pick one?
 
No down sides to stroke it. Just a few extra dollars to notch the block. Forged Stock & Stroker kits are same price, so why not get the extra displacement. Both work if built right.

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Give it time, THAT will change...

I hope not, 15 years and still great.

Hopefully it won't happen until I need viagra or can't remember where I am.
 
To me the only downside is money.
Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?
Id be stroking a 4.1 if my budget would stand it.

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??? Are you talking about clearences? If so no need to worry if you went stock stroke. Stroker, clearences must be made to the block. Are you building it your self?

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No I am talking about the angle of the rod pushing the piston into the side of the cylinder wall.
 
I recently purchased another 109 long block. I'm trying to decide whether to go with a forged stock stroke or stroker. I am looking at the kits from GN1. Is there really any down side to stroking with a 109 block? I understand maybe a little less rpm. Is there any major block clearancing that needs to be done? (I intend to do a girdle) Bad rod angles? I saw different rod lengths, how should I pick one?

Based upon our experience of building many 3.8 and 4.1 with a stroker crank, I will try to answer your questions best as possible.

One downside could be a small base circle billet cam will be needed if you are going all out for performance as you will need a high lift cam. You should be able to get 600 HP at the wheels with a normal cam.

There is more assembly labor required as the rotating assembly must be mocked up once or more to assure there is no interference.

As far as "bad rod angles" there really is no such thing in a Buick V-6, at least in all the engines we have built and worked on there has never been any indication of excessive wear on the piston or cylinder wall due to rod ratio? As far as any gain in HP, you could never measure any difference.

We prefer a stock length rod as it allow the pin to be lower in the piston.

I do not know what you mean by "a little less rpm"? Our stroker engines will RPM as much as a 3.8, and one of my personal stroker engines will pull to over 8000 RPM.

Added displacement is always a plus in making more HP, but until you get above the "normal" range, especially on the street, you will see very little increase. :)
 
Unless you have access to one of the relatively rare and expensive wide journal cranks and expect to run in the 7's, that is something you do not need to consider. :confused:

What you do need to consider is your performance goal and budget. If you are asking for advise in your build, it is necessary for you to state where you want to go performance-wise?

There have been many GN's that have been into the 10's with stock, unopened blocks, and the car has been equipped with the proper supporting parts to achieve this goal.

Asking questions is a good thing if you know where you are going, but your destination must be made clear to help you get there. :)

The questions you are asking would be applicable when building a $30K competition engine, but we do not see many of those here on this board! :D
 
Added displacement is always a plus in making more HP, but until you get above the "normal" range, especially on the street, you will see very little increase. :)

Can I get a clarification of what "normal" rage is? Are we talking stock? 5k rpm and below, and 14psi boost? Or are we cranking up the boost to 17-20psi as is done by many if not most who race?

Then we get into supporting mods.
Fuel system(pump, hot wire kit, injectors)
Larger turbo
Head work
Exhaust work
And with more power becomes getting it to the ground
Transmission
Rear end when the power "overpowers" it (yes I know the 8.5 will take plenty if abuse)

Back to the question. Increased cubic inches is good at any level in regard to making power, whether it is increasing the bore or increasing the stroke within the blocks ability to hold it.

The 4.1 car I have ridden in sure seemed to have a lot more low end in the lower rpm range. I can't see that stroking either size 3.8 or 4.1 wouldn't have the same increase in low end through the use of more cubic inches. It pretty much sealed me "needing" to build a 4.1 for my car even though I have been discouraged by several people who tell me the 3.8 can make just as much power much cheaper and with much less hassle.

My thinking is that it will still look very stock to those who don't know.

Thanks for your input



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Can I get a clarification of what "normal" rage is? Are we talking stock? 5k rpm and below, and 14psi boost? Or are we cranking up the boost to 17-20psi as is done by many if not most who race?...............
Increased cubic inches is good at any level in regard to making power, whether it is increasing the bore or increasing the stroke within the blocks ability to hold it.

The 4.1 car I have ridden in sure seemed to have a lot more low end in the lower rpm range. I can't see that stroking either size 3.8 or 4.1 wouldn't have the same increase in low end through the use of more cubic inches. It pretty much sealed me "needing" to build a 4.1 for my car even though I have been discouraged by several people who tell me the 3.8 can make just as much power much cheaper and with much less hassle....................

I agree, any increase in cubic inches is good, but most racers favor increasing bore over stroke as it will allow better "breathing" and this is especially true in the case of 3.8 vs 4.1.

My personal experience with increased stroke was a few years ago when I freshened my 4.1 alum engine and installed a stock stroke rotating assembly from the 3.625" one I used for years.

The same cam, heads, turbo, intake and all other parts were re-used and the car is an index racer and will run consistent within 0.01 of a second. With all things being equal including boost, the car was only 0.10 slower with the stock stroke set up, and this is at almost 7000 RPM.
:)
As far as the people stating "the 3.8 can make just as much power much cheaper and with much less hassle", that is BS as I have used and built almost 100 4.1's over the years, and the low end torque and power is very much more than a 3.8 because of the improved breathing with the valve unshrouded.

My 4.1's will run high 9's with a 70mm turbo at 17-18 psi in a 3500# car.
 
Well your reply makes me think I'm on the right track with my 4.1 thoughts. Some 4 inch forged pistons , heads cut for bigger intake valves, and get my trans sorted out to get power to the ground. I have a ta62 and a ta 60 to try out. Probably will go with a 224/224 cam and 60lb injectors and let her fly. Then hope it can make a power tour and drag week with some A/c and cruise control.

Thanks for your knowledge and willingness to share.

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..... I have a ta62 and a ta 60 to try out. Probably will go with a 224/224 cam and 60lb injectors and let her fly.....

Thanks for your knowledge and willingness to share.........

The TA-62 would be a good choice, and the 224/224 cam is our choice as well for a killer street car! :)

You are welcome, glad to share our experiences to help others that appreciate it.
 
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