Torque and horsepower

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Jnel

New Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
33
I've been reading a lot on the forums lately, to the detriment of actually doing anything...

I want to start a discussion of the the torque that the 3.8L turbo'd engines produce.

I'm not a performance car guy; I'm a little bit of a wrencher, who has rebuilt 2 engines when I had to. 1 car, and 1 motorcycle. I know a little about the ins and outs of things mechanical, but I'm not an expert.

I had a long-running debate with a former co-worker who considered himself a motor-head. He's got a '71 Chevelle. The debate was about what sets you into the seat, what gets you down the 1/4 faster: torque or horsepower.

For me, on paper, and according to basic physics, acceleration is a function of torque. Horsepower is a function of how much work you can do.

I read a lot on these forums about making horsepower. But my view is, that acceleration is a function of purely torque. Torque isn't talked about very much.

Here's a for instance: even the HA cars were making 300 lb ft of torque. Granted, they were only making 200 HP. But 300 lb ft of torque is definitely nothing to sneeze at.

I'm looking at some specs for other V6 current production cars. They are making more horsepower, but less torque. I believe the '10 Camaro is making 304 HP at 6400 RPM, and 273 lb ft at 5200. More HP, but less torque. I read they will do 0-60 in 6, 1/4 in 14.2. The GN HA cars will do 0-60 in 7.5, and 1/4 in 15.7. For 104 less HP stock, the HA GN is a contender to take a current production V6 car, albeit with a few mods.

Not sure what my point is really, I've had a few too many while I'm writing this... I guess my point is that the Buick 3.8L turbo was a very high-torque engine, and it's not all about HP.

Jeff

P.S

I've looked at my notes, and comparing the I/C '86 GN with the '10 Camaro, the '86 GN is making 235 Hp at 4k RPM, and 330 lb ft at 2400, and performs at 0-60 at 4.9, and 1/4 at 13.9..... I know that there are many variables, drivetrain gearing, losses, suspension, tires, etc, but.... It's mostly about torque ;)
 
I've been reading a lot on the forums lately, to the detriment of actually doing anything...

I want to start a discussion of the the torque that the 3.8L turbo'd engines produce.

I'm not a performance car guy; I'm a little bit of a wrencher, who has rebuilt 2 engines when I had to. 1 car, and 1 motorcycle. I know a little about the ins and outs of things mechanical, but I'm not an expert.

I had a long-running debate with a former co-worker who considered himself a motor-head. He's got a '71 Chevelle. The debate was about what sets you into the seat, what gets you down the 1/4 faster: torque or horsepower.

For me, on paper, and according to basic physics, acceleration is a function of torque. Horsepower is a function of how much work you can do.

I read a lot on these forums about making horsepower. But my view is, that acceleration is a function of purely torque. Torque isn't talked about very much.

Here's a for instance: even the HA cars were making 300 lb ft of torque. Granted, they were only making 200 HP. But 300 lb ft of torque is definitely nothing to sneeze at.

I'm looking at some specs for other V6 current production cars. They are making more horsepower, but less torque. I believe the '10 Camaro is making 304 HP at 6400 RPM, and 273 lb ft at 5200. More HP, but less torque. I read they will do 0-60 in 6, 1/4 in 14.2. The GN HA cars will do 0-60 in 7.5, and 1/4 in 15.7. For 104 less HP stock, the HA GN is a contender to take a current production V6 car, albeit with a few mods.

Not sure what my point is really, I've had a few too many while I'm writing this... I guess my point is that the Buick 3.8L turbo was a very high-torque engine, and it's not all about HP.

Jeff

P.S

I've looked at my notes, and comparing the I/C '86 GN with the '10 Camaro, the '86 GN is making 235 Hp at 4k RPM, and 330 lb ft at 2400, and performs at 0-60 at 4.9, and 1/4 at 13.9..... I know that there are many variables, drivetrain gearing, losses, suspension, tires, etc, but.... It's mostly about torque ;)

The 86 GN was making closer to 270hp. If you looked at hp vs road speed or tq vs road speed you would have your answers. The one with the highest average torque over the road speed its tested at will be quicker if it has traction and weighs the same. Hp is a formula. They are both totally interchangable at any given rpm. Chassis dynos make it easy to look at road hp and tq. A really strong running street GN will have 600+ft to the wheels at any given road speed at WOT. Gearing plays a role and torque converter selection plays a role. Get it in the power band and keep it there.
 
I've only been on here a short time, but my first lesson was to listen to Bison. He knows from experience. That's why he's absolutely right 99.44% of the time, and just plain correct the other .56%. :D
 
if you want to know the difference, remember this...

Horsepower is what you read about... Torque is what you feel.




John:D
 
i thought torque is how high your heels come off the ground when you try to piss with a morning woodie
 
I've had to prove to many people over the years that turbo Buicks are low RPM torque motors:D.

The uneducated hear turbo and they automatically think high RPM HP monster with no torque...

Blows them away when you explain the average street GNs 350hp/500#tq and 5500RPM redline...
 
Thanks for the well reasoned replies. I'm trying to learn about perfomance, mostly on paper right now; I'm just that kind of person. Now I guess I'm curious about what really generates torque (and consequently HP) in an engine; is it fundamentally bore and stroke? ahhh I've a got of learning to do...

Jeff
 
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