Traction Control

[TurboTnZ06]

I like traction control in my Z06. Namely the "active handling" feature in competition mode where it lets me spin the tires, but will keep lateral sliding in check so I stay in control if I take a corner too hard or have to use an emergency evasive maneuver to avoid a collision. So, I was thinking, has anyone tried a traction control system on our cars? I only found one site that had something like this.
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control
On the downside, our cars do not have ABS and worse yet, drum rear brakes. Perhaps if a GN/T was upgraded to disc brakes all the way around then maybe it would be nice to have some "active handling" on it with some software.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Unlike ABS which is largely vehicle independent and completely brake dependent a traction control setup requires access to the engine throttle or atleast timing for reduced power, brakes for the fancy stuff to control individual wheels, and a good knowledge of what applying certian things does to the vehicle behaviour. It is also illegal in most NHRA, IHRA, and NMCA classes if you care about such a thing as its an active feedback system. Retrofitting 4 wheel discs isn't hard, adding a 3 channel ABS from an Impala SS wouldn't be too terribly hard either its stand alone and uses simple reluctor rings onto front rotors and on the pinion nose for the rear. The Cadillac Fleetwood uses a 4 channel system with reluctors on the axles just inboard of the axle flanges. These stand alone systems take input from the sensors and the VSS so they don't engage under a certian mph and so they can run internal diagnostics at certian speeds. Read this article on the Bosch system used on the B-body platform to really understand how the ABS works.
A traction control setup would require interface with the brake module, the ECM, and sensors for relative lateral movement and then programming for trigger limits and responce which would have to be tailored to the vehicle as activating the same things a 'Vette does for traction control isn't going to effect a G-body the same way with its higher weight, higher center of gravity, different wheelbase, and solid rear suspenion.
I'm going to be putting B-body Bosch 2U ABS on my Riv unless I figure out how to get the W-body ABS to work with the B-body sensors but I'm not going to even touch the W-body traction control even though its in the computer and brake module as the dynamics are all wrong.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Thanks. I don't compete regularly in NHRA events, and even if I did I don't think it would give me any advantage since my local track hooks well enough to snap my axles I understand ABS. I meant that first, I would go discs in the back, then research an ABS conversion, then try to figure out how a piggyback system could work in a GN/T to provide traction control. I think it would be a ton of work to get installed and working with the factory ECM. It would be cool to have for daily driving.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

That Bosch article was very good.

 

[steveX]

This is all nice, but are you KIDDING ME. Traction control on a TR....LOL.

Put it this way, Car were made for people who CAN drive.

Trac-cont,ABS, Air-Bags (car turn into a air bag), daytime running light, NAV system, Night vision, and all the driving for dummies feature, are for people who CAN`T drive.

Yea, i see it now. "i want a 600hp car with all the bells and whisle"......LOL


NEW car SUCK

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Thanks. I don't compete regularly in NHRA events, and even if I did I don't think it would give me any advantage since my local track hooks well enough to snap my axles I understand ABS. I meant that first, I would go discs in the back, then research an ABS conversion, then try to figure out how a piggyback system could work in a GN/T to provide traction control. I think it would be a ton of work to get installed and working with the factory ECM. It would be cool to have for daily driving.

I don't think there is enough space in the code on the ECM for that, you'd need a piggy back module that tapped into an existing input that simply commanded reduced timing based on a trigger mechanism with all the processing done somewhere else. Kind of like a knock or ignition module, simple signals from one trigger code in another that has a more complex reaction so you don't have to have the processing power in one spot. If we could get ahold of the W-body L67 source code, then I think we might have something to really play with but you'd need the ECM (called a PCM on a W-body), the BCM (Body Control Module), and the EBCM (Electronic Brake Control Module) code to fully integrate and tailor stuff though the EBCM could likely be left alone as long as the data output and input requirements were known. I'm working on using the L67 computer to run my LC2 4.1L so we'll see how that goes.

 

[turbobuickman]

Traction control takes the fun out of driving a powerful rwd car!

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Don't get me wrong- "Traction control is lifting the right foot" I know, I know.

In the Buick, I love pulling out onto a 5 lane divided highway at 1/2 or 3/4 throttle, 5-7 psi boost and getting sideways (when second gear hits) and sliding all the way across the intersection. Did it yesterday in fact, and got into the throttle 100% once it was lined back up and it lit the tires up again. Fun stuff. BTW, I go through street tires. In the past 25,000 miles, I've gone through 4 sets of street tires. A set of Dunlop S rated 235/60 tires, a set of Yokohama AVS V rated 235/60 Intermediates, and two sets of Yokohama AVS Z rated 225-60 tires. If anyone drives hard, I do. This doesn't count two sets of drag radials.

The Buick is not as balanced as my Zo6, so it wants to just go around in a circle if I stay on the gas. That's why in the Zo6, I turn off traction control and active handling when I want to have some fun when there are no other cars around. You can put the car in any position and it goes where you want it to. Slight understeer, but not bad.

On the Buick, from an engineering standpoint, it is an interesting problem. I probably won't ever put traction control in b/c it looks like too much effort for the rewards, but I wanted to see if it had been done on a GN/T before.

 

[11secondgs]

another option

Go run the msd 7al programable, with a ford 9" that has a centersection with computer hookup. The 7al will retard your timing using coil packs and thus modern traction control on an old dog. It works great for hard launches with nitrous.

Thanks
JP