TTA died on the road today...fusible link, ign. sw ?

[alwayscode390]

or install a Ford starter solenoid by your starter as they need less amperage to transfer power.

OOOH I like that option. I do this in my 67' so its familiar territory , thanks

edit: how would hotwiring the VATS clear up voltage problems? ---

 

[fast400]

Before you take the whole car apart, pull the starter and look at the brushes. I had a occasional no-start issue which was due to worn brushes.

 

[Scott89TTA]

Before you take the whole car apart, pull the starter and look at the brushes. I had a occasional no-start issue which was due to worn brushes.

the stock starter is out and gone...while checking the fusible links I broke the stud off for the solenoid so I just replaced it with a LT1 mini starter that I will install Saturday...something I wanted to do anyway. That wasn't the problem anyway since I removed the starter and tied the power wires back together with a bolt so I could still check for voltage...didn't make any difference with the starter in or out.

 

[Razor]

So do the wires from the links go through the bulkhead on the firewall?

If the BATT terminal on your fuse box is dead, run a wire from the battery + to the terminal and see if the car then works. You can use the ALT+ terminal as well.

Obviously your missing power at the fuse box, supply power when its known missing and work from there.

 

[Scott89TTA]

So do the wires from the links go through the bulkhead on the firewall?

If the Batt terminal on your fuse box is dead, run a wire from the battery + to the terminal and see if the car then works. You can use the ALT+ terminal as well.

Obviously your missing power at the fuse box, supply power when its known missing and work from there.

Things that should be hot all the time and work: battery terminal on fuse block, interior dome light, horn, parking lights...things that don't: headlights, brake lights, flashers, pwr trunk. Everything on the fuse block that should be hot with key on (run or start) are dead...no 12V on fuse block.

Steve Kaminski was helping me over the phone...removed all fusible links at the starter & temporally replaced w/10 awg wire (will put new links back in when I'm done). We verified that 12v was hot on the 2 terminals of the ignition switch (big red wires). Interior light, horn, parking lights work...turn key to "accessory" radio works, 12V hot on big brown wire ign sw. Turn key to "Run" no 12V on orange wire, turn to "Start" no 12V on yellow wire of ign sw. This led us to believe the ignition switch was bad...made some sense since it acted similar last Fall while getting gas...truned car off, pump gas, try to start...nothing seemed dead...15 min later turn key and it starts. While the ignition switch was out I jumped the red & orange wires on the connector and the pwr windows and heater fan worked...closed windows but pretty much finished off the battery. After I replaced the ignition switch I only had about 7V and the battery was at that point too weak to power anything so I wasn't able to do any more tests or even verify if the switch fixed the problem. That was Sunday night and I have not been able to work on it since. I have a charger on the battery so it should be good...but feel I need to do a load test on the battery to verify it isn't the culprit since it is pretty old and needs a tender to hold a charge if left sitting for a week. I have a new battery that I just purchaced for the Fiero that is the same size that I will try. I know a battery can show 12V but not have any current and it seems the things that need the most juice are the ones not working?

So haven't really thrown any parts at it other than replacing the starter and that was because I broke the stud off and decided it was time to get the LT1 starter. As for the ignition switch seemed to be bad according to our test.

I need to get a test light and go back over things again...I have a DVM but is kind of a pain for doing quick checks.

Been super busy at work this week and don't get home until 8:00 or 9:00 so I won't get to do anything untill Saturday.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Razor]

Things that should be hot all the time and work: battery terminal on fuse block, interior dome light, horn, parking lights...things that don't: headlights, brake lights, flashers, pwr trunk. Everything on the fuse block that should be hot with key on (run or start) are dead...no 12V on fuse block.

Thanks,
Scott

This is the kind of info that was needed few days ago.

You probably nailed it and it will be fine.

 

[alwayscode390]

So do you just buy a new block at this point , or rewire a bunch of faulty stuff? ---

 

[Scott89TTA]

This is the kind of info that was needed few days ago.

You probably nailed it and it will be fine.

not sure what i nailed yet but i am hopeful ? ...the switch or bad battery ?

So do you just buy a new block at this point , or rewire a bunch of faulty stuff? ---

lol...no I think Julio is confident that when I get the battery charged or replaced and can accurately test the circuit the ign switch may have been my problem...or a battery with dropped cells that doesn't produce enough current to fire the juice hungry stuff ?

 

[Razor]

A bad battery would have low voltage everywhere, not missing voltage.

 

[Scott89TTA]

A bad battery would have low voltage everywhere, not missing voltage.

true...I'm not convinced it was the switch either because things like the headlight, brake light, flashers, trunk latch motor (not working) are not affected by the switch.

 

[Razor]

True.
I dont have a body/electrical manual for a Firebird. I had one some time ago and it was sold. I have the TTA wiring stuff as it pertains to the 3.8 like the ecm and such.

Worse case is you'll need to get a manual from Helms and use it to troubleshoot why thos circuits dont have power.

One thing tho, the headlights should work by themselves. And they should have a spot on the fuse box that is suppossed to be HOT all the time. maybe you have a blown fuse in the box?? Something that simple. Just get a good test light and start touching fuses. There are BATT terminals on the fuse box.. make sure all the BATT terminals show power. If one doesnt, then trace backwards from there.

About a year ago I helped someone at BG with a Regal. He lost all power. On his car what ended up being the problem was the plastic engine harness was laying/rubbing on the steering column lock shaft. So everytime the car went from P to D it would m,ake the lever rub on the harness.. eventually breaking the wire in the harness. The TTA's dont have this lever on the column, but the point is changing fusible links didnt fix the problem this guy had as the wire was broken in the harness.

There is a bulkhead which feeds power from under the hood to the cockpit. That may need to be pulled and confirm you have power on the proper lugs. I have also seen where someone jams large wires or terminals on fuses and opens the terminals inside the fuse box and then the fuse doesnt make contact.

Hard to fix electrical problems over a keyboard. Just need to go to basics and see where you dont have power and trace backwards torwards the starter. Since all power starts at those links at the starter.

 

[Scott89TTA]

Yeah...I'm going to jump in 1st thing tomorrow morning. When I had the steering column dropped to change the ign sw I noticed that the car had a alarm installed at on time. The big yellow wire has a small box spliced into it...I remember something similar to this when i installed a alarm on one of my other cars many years ago. Also there is a blue wire and e red wire coming up from behind the kick panel...they were taped up with electrical tape, had some sort of contacts on the end like they were pulled out of a connector or relay...this wouldn't have to do with a VATS bypass for the alarm maybe. I currently don't have a alarm on the car and not sure if the VATS is even hooked up either. There were also lots of crimp-on wire taps under there as well...I hate finding crap like that

thanks,
Scott

 

[Street Lethal]

Even though the security light is not flashing it is still possible that VATS is being tripped whenever the key is being placed in the on position. Did you jump A&B at the ALDL to scan for a code 46? If there is no code stored, then you can rule out VATS, not to mention the later passkey setups kill the injectors, and not the starter. When the engine doesn't crank at all after being driven (especially on a warm day) it's usually a bad starter solenoid, and if half of a percentage in your fuse block is gone, its more than likely a fusible link. When it first happened, did you try tapping the solenoid lightly with a long screwdriver after you stalled, just to see if it would start...?

 

[Razor]

Even though the security light is not flashing it is still possible that VATS is being tripped whenever the key is being placed in the on position. Did you jump A&B at the ALDL to scan for a code 46? If there is no code stored, then you can rule out VATS, not to mention the later passkey setups kill the injectors, and not the starter. When the engine doesn't crank at all after being driven (especially on a warm day) it's usually a bad starter solenoid, and if half of a percentage in your fuse block is gone, its more than likely a fusible link. When it first happened, did you try tapping the solenoid lightly with a long screwdriver after you stalled, just to see if it would start...?

His headlamps are dead. Non vats related

 

[paul87t]

Has the cylinder heads ever been off the car? Check to see if the ground wires are connected at the back of the passenger side cylinder head.

Other thoughts: Knowing the headlights aren't working is good information. Fix that and you'll likely find the problem. Start diagnosing the simplest things first. The VATS system is the last thing I'd look at after getting the easier things fixed like the headlights, since they are non VATS related.

 

[Scott89TTA]

Has the cylinder heads ever been off the car? Check to see if the ground wires are connected at the back of the passenger side cylinder head.

Other thoughts: Knowing the headlights aren't working is good information. Fix that and you'll likely find the problem. Start diagnosing the simplest things first. The VATS system is the last thing I'd look at after getting the easier things fixed like the headlights, since they are non VATS related.

heads were off last year...already checked the grounds on the back 2 manifold bolts (passerger side). Hopefully Saturday will be productive.

 

[alwayscode390]

I noticed that the car had a alarm installed at on time.

thanks,
Scott

HHAHAH, that is what I am thinking is the root of my problem also. The car had an alarm on it at one time , and I dont think it was uninstalled correctly ---

 

[Scott89TTA]

This just keeps getting F'n better all the time

Picked up a test light this morning and started probing. Battery was charged measured 12.9V...turn key on to look for 12V w/test light. Put key in "acc" tried the radio...no enough juice to run it...checked battery and it was down to 10V. I pulled the battery and took it to get tested. After a couple minutes on the tester...results "REPLACE BATTERY" zero CCA's. So I get a new battery and turn the key on...still nothing as I expected (battery was bad but not the problem). Turn key to "ACC" radio works fine...turn key to "RUN" nothing...tried the power window sw to see if they worked nothing then all the sudden the dash lights up and everything comes on...starter not installed so didn't try to start. Now here is where it gets REAL F'd up...something starts to smoke...I quickly turn the key off and everything stays on....run around and unhook the battery as quick as I could. The PINK wire going from the ignition sw to the fuse block melted from one end to the other...gluing it self to a few other wires. Now there is a direct shot to ground on the pink wire, both red wires going to the ign sw connector (sw is unplugged) shorted at the battery as well on the main cables.

This is a F'n mess !!!

Julio sent you a PM

-Scott

 

[Scott89TTA]

ok...found what I think was the original culprit...found a cut in the electrical tape on the wire harness between the ignition switch an the fuse block. Looks like it had been rubbing on the bare metal frame behind the dash on to the left of the steering column...it had burn marks where it had been arcing. The wire was the big pink wire that runs from the ign sw to the fuse block. Once I got all the wire loom and electrical tape out of the way I found that I disconnected the battery before it burned all the way to the fuse block...stopped about 10". Cut out the burnt wire and temp jumped between the ign sw and fuse block. No go....found out that I cooked the ignition switch when it fried the pink wire (just replaced it last week)...also turned out the old sw wasn't bad. Put the old switch back in and everything seems to work but I think I have a short in the gage circuit...have the fuse pulled.

Installing the LT1 starter now to see if it will start...

-Scott

 

[JP112_89]

..

You are very close Scott. Keep up the hard work!