Turbo-to-UpPipe gasket: Copper, donut, or both?

[FlaBoy]

I am trying to figure out how the up-pipe seals to the turbine housing inlet. When I got the car it had nothing on that joint. When I put it back together this past week, I threw on a Mr. Gasket brand generic header collector gasket was about the right size just to have something on there. It leaks now (as I expected) and I'm sure it'll only get worse as time goes on (just a 'paper' style gasket).

I have done a lot searching on the subject, and have heard people talk about several different gaskets or combinations of them, and don;t really know what I need to get. Theres the copper triangle gaskets as sold by gbodyparts.com and other vendors:

I have also heard people refer to a 'donut' style gasket (I assume that is similar the one on the downpipe-to-turbo joint). I have even heard people saying that you need to use both? and lastly I have heard people talk about the "factory ceramic gasket" that is hard/impossible to find or replace (I have no idea what this might look like).

I had none of this on the car when I bought it, so I have no idea what the proper gasket(s) is/are supposed to look like or anything. If you guys could fill me in on what is needed to properly seal this joint I would really appreciate it.

 

[Boost231]

what kind of up-pipe are you using? on my atr i run the copper 3 bolt gasket like you have showing. then on the bottom of it, where it connects to the header i have a special gasket i use.

 

[FlaBoy]

Sorry, I meant to mention it, but forgot. I have a Stock up-pipe (And stock headers, and stock turbo).

I have no gasket at all between up-pipe and headers (which I think is how they came stock) and so far as I can tell theres no leaking from that joint, its the up-pipe to turbo I'm concerned about.

Thanks!

 

[Jerryl]

Sorry, I meant to mention it, but forgot. I have a Stock up-pipe (And stock headers, and stock turbo).

I have no gasket at all between up-pipe and headers (which I think is how they came stock) and so far as I can tell theres no leaking from that joint, its the up-pipe to turbo I'm concerned about.

Thanks!

You are correct.
I belief Boost231 is talking about his custom setup.

The stock set-up uses no gasket between the up-pipe and headers.
There was also "no gasket" between the up-pipe and turbo.
There is that special adapter type seal.

Having said that, I Ass-U-Me you are leaking between the adapter and the turbine housing.
If you have a leak between the turbine housing and the metal adapter, you can use the red high tem RTV.
Just make sure the surface the "CLEAN", get the RTV on the surfaces, tighten to 80%, let is sit overnight and cure, and finish torque the next day.

You can use the copper gasket as well, but if you decide, I would get the composite one from RJC.

Having said that, I use the copper gasket with good results, but I have fairly flat surfaces.
You will be AMAZED how "non flat" the sealing surfaces are if you hand file the surfaces (Which IMHO is the best option with RTV)

Edit;
PS; I think you will need to use the donut on the stock up-pipe.
If you don't there will be too much stress on the system (Shortening frmo donut removal), and I donlt think you can get a solid seal at the turbine housing.
I am sure some have gotten it to seal OK, but my results often vary. :tongue:

 

[FlaBoy]

There is that special adapter type seal.

...

Edit;
PS; I think you will need to use the donut on the stock up-pipe.
If you don't there will be too much stress on the system (Shortening frmo donut removal), and I donlt think you can get a solid seal at the turbine housing.
I am sure some have gotten it to seal OK, but my results often vary. :tongue:

I have NOTHING between my up-pipe and turbo. There is the flared end of the up-pipe which butts up against the turbine inlet. Behind the flare, there is a sliding collar with three holes that the bolts go through, when tightened these bolts sandwich the flared portion of the pipe tightly against the turbo. Between the flared portion of the up-pipe and the turbo, and between the sliding 'collar' and turbo I currently have nothing (well okay, I have that crappy cheap-o paper header collector gasket in there right now, but I know thats not proper).

I made this ROUGH sketch to show what I currently have going on at that joint (not drawn to scale, etc... its been awhile since my drafting classes)

When you talk about the "special adapter type seal" are you talking about what I refer to as the "sliding collar" or do you mean something else? Is there supposed to be a 'donut' type gasket (like whats on the downpipe) between the flared portion of up-pipe and turbine housing, and if so, is THAT what you mean by the "adapter type seal"?

Sorry for the million questions, but I don't have ANYTHING there and haven't seen any of these things so I don;t really know what it all looks like. I just want to make sure theres no confusion over terminology etc.

Basically, I have just the up-pipe, that sliding collar that the bolts go through and the turbo housing, nothing else (no gaskets, donuts, adapter, etc.). For stock components, what else do I need to get to seal this joint properly? If there are links to vendors webpages showing what I need, or part numbers, or anything like that it would be very helpful.

Thanks for all the patience guys!

 

[Jerryl]

OK,
NP with the questions.

There is a "metal donut" type piece that is supposed to go between the turbine housing and the up-pipe. (The one that always cracks and breaks )
In essence, to donut has a "flat backing" that seals up against the turbine housing, with a taper for the flare on the other side to seal the up-pipe. (Hope I do a good enough job explaining it.)
That piece is missing for the (your) stock set-up.

Edit;
I located two threads; One with a picture of the missing part, the other with a solution .
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/163840-need-help-my-85-pt-2-a.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ho...tech/92758-turbo-uppipe-downpipe-gaskets.html

 

[FlaBoy]

Jerryl you have, once again, helped me out immensely. I don't know how I missed those posts with all my searching, but they were VERY helpful. I ordered the felpro part number recommended in one of the posts, so when that gets In I'll see how well it actually seals.

Seriously, I don;t think my car would be anywhere close to running if it weren't for all the help and parts you've thrown my way.

 

[O SO LO]

uppipe adapter

You need the adapter piece shown going into the turbo for the uppipe...

 

[FlaBoy]

Yeah, this thread is the first time I've seen anything that looks like that adapter/gasket, there certainly was nothing like that on my car when I got it. Now all these threads and posts I've read on the subject make sense... it's hard to get an idea of what people are talking about when I've never seen the part in question.

I went ahead and ordered Felpro gasket part number 60537, as suggested in this thread that Jerryl linked to:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/92758-turbo-uppipe-downpipe-gaskets.html

The way I see it, I can get one in 3 days from the auto parts store for under 10 bucks... if it seals the joint properly, thats great. Problem solved without spending what I assume is more money and waiting longer trying to track down a used stock adapter/gasket. If it doesn't seal it well enough, then I'm only out a few bucks, and I go ahead and find the stock type one anyways.

 

[racemybuick]

If anyone needs that cone gasket for the stock pipe, I have a spare...Ill put it for sale in my part for sale thread...



John:biggrin: