MeanBuicks
Scaring the neighbors!
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 3,658
The input drum is the long aluminum drum containing the input shaft. The steel drum that works with the band is the Reverse Input Drum.
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M
mrvette72
Guest
6pak, well the unit is out of a more normal car or truck...aux valve body 'late 87 unit...
I did use a b29?? what you said converter, from Mitchell tranny supply here in Jax Florida...
it's a dayco?? think so...
I never touched the band servo..unknown...
it has a Superior shift kit in it...
seems all thestuff was done correctly to thevalve body...far as I can tell from the installation direction I got from the builder...
I did buy a TV /sleeve that was supposed to cure the 3-4 upshift blues at WOT...it did NOTHING>...waste of ~50 bux.....
accumulator springs are same as what superior color coded them to be...
I think from looking closely and reading close, the complete superior kit was installed....
700r4 HP kit....one black/white paper instruction sheet from 5 years ago....
I remember playing with the governor assy 5 years ago to get it right, shifted WAY too early...now it's fine...too late sometimes at light neighborhood driving....
GENE
I did use a b29?? what you said converter, from Mitchell tranny supply here in Jax Florida...
it's a dayco?? think so...
I never touched the band servo..unknown...
it has a Superior shift kit in it...
seems all thestuff was done correctly to thevalve body...far as I can tell from the installation direction I got from the builder...
I did buy a TV /sleeve that was supposed to cure the 3-4 upshift blues at WOT...it did NOTHING>...waste of ~50 bux.....
accumulator springs are same as what superior color coded them to be...
I think from looking closely and reading close, the complete superior kit was installed....
700r4 HP kit....one black/white paper instruction sheet from 5 years ago....
I remember playing with the governor assy 5 years ago to get it right, shifted WAY too early...now it's fine...too late sometimes at light neighborhood driving....
GENE
You've been adjusting the TV cable wrong. Have someone sit in the car and press the gas pedal to the floor. Then press the adjuster tab on the cable and pull the cable housing away from the bracket. The cable should have zero slack in it with the gas pedal on the floor. You can put two clicks of slack in it if needed.
Line pressure is what makes ANY transmission work. Line pressure is what applies the frictions. A good 400 runs at about 250-300 psi line pressure, just like a good 700 R4 does.
DO NOT block the accumulators and loosen the cable. Period. It will NOT work. Discard that idea and NEVER return to it.
The input drum is the aluminum drum with the input shaft in it. The steel drum is the REVERSE input drum. The band rides on the reverse input drum, and is responsible for 2nd and 4th gear. The reverse input drum must be in excellent condition, with the surface properly prepared, in order for 2nd and 4th gear to be worth a damn.
Most likely what's in your pan is your converter. It COULD be something else, but not likely.
No, there really isn't a way to make putting those drums in any easier.
I don't use Dayco converters anymore, in my opinion, they are among the very worst, especially the Dayco 700 converters. I won't even build a transmission for someone who is going to use one.
The B29 is a standard, plain jane converter. The B29X is the high stall version used in the Corvette, the Z-28, and the Trans Am. The B29XHD is a special version with better parts. B29 is the industry standard number for the 30 spline 700 converter.
If you didn't change the servo it is WAY too small. You can buy the Corvetter servo from a parts shop for abot $10. HUGE difference here. The best setup is the Corvette servo with the Sonnax billet cover, at least for your application. You can use the Fairbanks full billet setup if you really want the shifts to hurt.
You also don't have the correct TV boost valve OR the correct intermediate boost valve. They are way too small, and cause a lack of line pressure and line pressure rise.
The Superior accumulator springs are not for heavy duty use, they're for regular rebuilds. Use the Sonnax springs they are.
The upshift sleeve on the TV valve will only help, it won't make the transmission shift from 3rd to 4th at WOT, especially with low line pressure, and without the right 4th shift valve and sleeve. Some transmissions will never have a WOT 3-4 upshift.
There's nothing wrong with the Superior kit, it just won't make a Caprice transmission into a high performance version of the Corvette transmission. You need about $250 more in valvebody and servo parts.
Look on the instructions for the Superior kit and you'll see they have the part number for the Corvette governor. it should drop right in, and give you a WOT automatic shift at around 5500 RPM -IF- you have the rest of the parts in with it.
The 700 R4 and the 200 4R are both complex transmissions, and the difference between the regular versions and the HP versions as far as pump, governor, and valvebody calibrations go, is RADICAL. And it isn't as easy (like JUST putting in a "shift kit") to change them as it is a 350 or 400.
M
mrvette72
Guest
Alan, haha..thanks for the reassurance on that installation those clutches made me feel so incompetant, frustrating as hell, wonder if I tore them up, tried not to...
so you think it's old converter??? interesting..I thought it might have been gears or sprags....
the old converter had slop of about 600 some odd rpm's when in 4th at 80 mph and unlocked...
the new one is about 1/2 of that much tighter, I like it better....another mistake on original build up...
the clutches I used in the 3/4 pack this time around were alto reds...that's about all Iknow..seem to fit what's been described..and was told they were best going...
now another interesting point, the interleaving steels seems very un uniform in finish...black streaks and silver places on the surface...as if they were not finished correctly, but I thought maybe that's normal...so I left them in place...
now I read that you all seem to be refinishing the steels for better contact...wonder if tha't a problem...should I get new one's and do that next time....for some reason I have NO conficence this will last all that long, so I am trying to gather as much intelligent information as I can prior to the next repair....
another thing, I"m not sure about just who is the best tranny guy here in Jax Fl....and taking it somewhere else to have another problem is not something I want to do...
my old tranny guys up north years ago was ATI, first owned by Jim Beatty of some local converter fame...and then Sherman Slye for years afterwards...the retail end that is...
GENE
so you think it's old converter??? interesting..I thought it might have been gears or sprags....
the old converter had slop of about 600 some odd rpm's when in 4th at 80 mph and unlocked...
the new one is about 1/2 of that much tighter, I like it better....another mistake on original build up...
the clutches I used in the 3/4 pack this time around were alto reds...that's about all Iknow..seem to fit what's been described..and was told they were best going...
now another interesting point, the interleaving steels seems very un uniform in finish...black streaks and silver places on the surface...as if they were not finished correctly, but I thought maybe that's normal...so I left them in place...
now I read that you all seem to be refinishing the steels for better contact...wonder if tha't a problem...should I get new one's and do that next time....for some reason I have NO conficence this will last all that long, so I am trying to gather as much intelligent information as I can prior to the next repair....
another thing, I"m not sure about just who is the best tranny guy here in Jax Fl....and taking it somewhere else to have another problem is not something I want to do...
my old tranny guys up north years ago was ATI, first owned by Jim Beatty of some local converter fame...and then Sherman Slye for years afterwards...the retail end that is...
GENE
Yes, it's most likely the converter past or present. And no, the Corvette converter should NOT have that kind of slip.
You'd have to practically beat the drums in to hurt the clutches. But if you do the HP 3/4 clutch pack right, you'll REALLY bitch about loading the drums in. While you're there. replace the overrun clutch housing (sprag) with a complete 89 and up assembly.
Steels should not EVER have black and silver streaks. Those are bad, they're burnt.
I use the Alto 3/4 Red Eagle clutch pack in the regular units (with ALL 9 clutches) and the HP kit in HP transmissions.
Next time, try the Alto HP 3/4 clutch pack, and the Alto Kevlar PowerBand (make sure the surface of the reverse input drum is flat, and has the proper finish). (But NEVER use Kevlar in a 200 4R). Put the Corvette servo in. Also at least get a .500" dia TV boost valve. Should cost you less than $150 for those parts plus a kit and filter.
Are you replacing ALL the Teflon rings, and setting ALL of your clearances properly? You need special tools for the sealing rings, and fixtures with dial indicators. Have you blueprinted your pump?
Are you torqueing your pump and valvebody?
I have no idea who builds transmissions in Jax. I had a customer who always drove up from Jax to Nashville TN to have me build his (Former Super Pro track champion Jr. Crawford). He was getting 2000 passes out of my PowerGlides.
Jim Beattie STILL owns ATI 100%, and has for the 20 years I've known him. I'm am ATI dealer/service center. His son Skip owns ACI in Nashville TN, and builds all my regular converters. His son J.C. Beattie Jr. is now an ASA driver. ATI still sells the stock rebuilds out of another building down the street, and does R&D work for GM. You could order a fresh B29XHD from them.
M
mrvette72
Guest
Good GOD Alan, you know Jim...interesting. small world...he probably forgot my name by now..but if you talk to him...this guy with a '67 Grand Prix had a 400 built by him back around -70 or so...and then took a '67 GTO tranny 400 to Sherman Slye who owned the rebuilding buiness he bought from Jim back what 25++ years ago...
Sherman stil traded under the ATI name but it was a differant company...at that point...Jim as I recall went up the road to Baltimore from Silver Spring Maryland, just outside the d.c. line....
funny story there that GTO 400 from '67 was bought from a fire job by me around 72 or so and sent to Sherman's ATI for rebuilding and hotrodding....well in the gas crunch of '79-80 I sold the car to Terri Lee Price, she and her husband of the time rebuilt converters also...forget their business name anywayl...
she used that car with that 400 tranny for a delivery vechicle, turning some 350,000 total miles on it..about 80k miles was mine...so she sells this car to a fellow with a '73 Ventura hotrod, and a '70 455 Pontiac engine...well this guy terrorized all the 'hoods' with this machine for a while, gets tired of it, and I buy it for the parts, including original '67 GTO his/hers shifter and that tranny Sherman built....
well before I put it into my tow car, I take it back to Sherman just before he retired to Carolina, I think,...anyway he hadn's seen me for about 15++ years...I walk into a room full of customers, he greets me, I say....
'Sherman, there just got to be some sort of extended warrenty on this thing, it's been 15++ year and 350,000 miles and it won't chirp rubber into 3rd gear the way it used to!!!.....he looks at ME....and the entire room bust out laughing....
well he redoes it again, and it's back new again, and so I use it for a tow car....
that final car it was in got published in HI Perf Pontiac Mag...as the Injected Madness Lemans...
in Feb of '95.....
7000 lbs worth of rig, plus gear and 4 adults weight...over a 10% grade for about 4 miles...uphill..start at about 80 mph at bottom and then open it up....my kids knew...that goat had some PULL....anyway 100 mph at top of the hill.....
I had direct port fuel injection on that Pontiac 455...did it myself in the garage for total cost of 650 bux...not bad...
GENE
Sherman stil traded under the ATI name but it was a differant company...at that point...Jim as I recall went up the road to Baltimore from Silver Spring Maryland, just outside the d.c. line....
funny story there that GTO 400 from '67 was bought from a fire job by me around 72 or so and sent to Sherman's ATI for rebuilding and hotrodding....well in the gas crunch of '79-80 I sold the car to Terri Lee Price, she and her husband of the time rebuilt converters also...forget their business name anywayl...
she used that car with that 400 tranny for a delivery vechicle, turning some 350,000 total miles on it..about 80k miles was mine...so she sells this car to a fellow with a '73 Ventura hotrod, and a '70 455 Pontiac engine...well this guy terrorized all the 'hoods' with this machine for a while, gets tired of it, and I buy it for the parts, including original '67 GTO his/hers shifter and that tranny Sherman built....
well before I put it into my tow car, I take it back to Sherman just before he retired to Carolina, I think,...anyway he hadn's seen me for about 15++ years...I walk into a room full of customers, he greets me, I say....
'Sherman, there just got to be some sort of extended warrenty on this thing, it's been 15++ year and 350,000 miles and it won't chirp rubber into 3rd gear the way it used to!!!.....he looks at ME....and the entire room bust out laughing....
well he redoes it again, and it's back new again, and so I use it for a tow car....
that final car it was in got published in HI Perf Pontiac Mag...as the Injected Madness Lemans...
in Feb of '95.....
7000 lbs worth of rig, plus gear and 4 adults weight...over a 10% grade for about 4 miles...uphill..start at about 80 mph at bottom and then open it up....my kids knew...that goat had some PULL....anyway 100 mph at top of the hill.....
I had direct port fuel injection on that Pontiac 455...did it myself in the garage for total cost of 650 bux...not bad...
GENE
Gene,
Locally, you might want to talk to a guy named Joe; he's a Camaro guy and has built 700s/4L60Es for a bunch of the F-body guys that seem to be living in fast cars. He has a 392 stroker Camaro that made 500+ RWHP and an 11 second TPI Formula Firebird.
He keeps blowing up the motor in the Camaro but I think the trans is generally fine.
I rode in the Firebird the other day and liked the way it shifted; we talked about the parts he'd put in it including a full roller bearing setup from a late model 4L60E.
I don't remember his last name but he works at the AAMCO in Mandarin, I believe.
Locally, you might want to talk to a guy named Joe; he's a Camaro guy and has built 700s/4L60Es for a bunch of the F-body guys that seem to be living in fast cars. He has a 392 stroker Camaro that made 500+ RWHP and an 11 second TPI Formula Firebird.
He keeps blowing up the motor in the Camaro but I think the trans is generally fine.
I rode in the Firebird the other day and liked the way it shifted; we talked about the parts he'd put in it including a full roller bearing setup from a late model 4L60E.I don't remember his last name but he works at the AAMCO in Mandarin, I believe.
M
mrvette72
Guest
Kendall, you mean Joe Schnelberger?? he runs a quick street machine....
I used to work with him at Hocus...
AAmco Mandarin eh?? interesting...thanks...
I'll stop by and say hello....
GENE
I used to work with him at Hocus...
AAmco Mandarin eh?? interesting...thanks...
I'll stop by and say hello....
GENE
is this worth it??
I have a question about 700R4 trannies. I have a gta trans am pushing about 600HP and 550LB/TQ. I got a couple prices for rebuilds. One reputable builder said that he could rebuild mine with all new parts. He said he would use the best parts available on the market now but could not give me an estimate of what it can handle. It would also include a transgo shift kit. Cost is 1000 plus my core.
Another price I got was 1700 and the guy said it would handle 7-800HP and 7-800LB/TQ. This was with using all Art Carr products and needing my core.
The last two options are the street/strip 700R4 700R4 or
"limited" street/strip 700R4 for 1625 (plus shipping)
"limited" 700R4 from probuilt transmissions. I want to keep teh 700R4 due to my 500 stall converter and taht I drive highways with 4.11s. Thanks in Advance!
I have a question about 700R4 trannies. I have a gta trans am pushing about 600HP and 550LB/TQ. I got a couple prices for rebuilds. One reputable builder said that he could rebuild mine with all new parts. He said he would use the best parts available on the market now but could not give me an estimate of what it can handle. It would also include a transgo shift kit. Cost is 1000 plus my core.
Another price I got was 1700 and the guy said it would handle 7-800HP and 7-800LB/TQ. This was with using all Art Carr products and needing my core.
The last two options are the street/strip 700R4 700R4 or
"limited" street/strip 700R4 for 1625 (plus shipping)
"limited" 700R4 from probuilt transmissions. I want to keep teh 700R4 due to my 500 stall converter and taht I drive highways with 4.11s. Thanks in Advance!
WE4
TBcom Admin /Prayers NYFD/NYPD
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 4,594
PTS XTREME HAS MERGED EFFORTS WITH:
HHP Racing , Brian Hartman out of Denver Colorado. He has some of the fastest Syclone Typhoons, and F bodies in the country. He is out here in Ca and has joined efforts at PTS XTREME. We are currently in production of 5 new billet parts for the 4l60-4l60E market. Two we have now and the rest are in progress to be announced soon. His transmissions will take the horsepower level you are looking for , but you are wayyy off on price. You want quality ? It will take dollars on this trans just as it does with the 2004r. Do a search for him on syty boards or the F body boards. He is the best in the country as far as I am concerned , that is why we paired up.
He is the innovator and leader in this trans right now that I know of. Transbrakes and all.
Brian can be reached at 916-381-0106 9:00-6:00 pst and ask for Brian Hartman. He will personally talk to you and answer ALL of your questions and address ALL of your concerns. Converters are also available with our exclusive 9X11 lock ups and billet non lock up converters.
Bruce
WE4
HHP Racing , Brian Hartman out of Denver Colorado. He has some of the fastest Syclone Typhoons, and F bodies in the country. He is out here in Ca and has joined efforts at PTS XTREME. We are currently in production of 5 new billet parts for the 4l60-4l60E market. Two we have now and the rest are in progress to be announced soon. His transmissions will take the horsepower level you are looking for , but you are wayyy off on price. You want quality ? It will take dollars on this trans just as it does with the 2004r. Do a search for him on syty boards or the F body boards. He is the best in the country as far as I am concerned , that is why we paired up.
He is the innovator and leader in this trans right now that I know of. Transbrakes and all.
Brian can be reached at 916-381-0106 9:00-6:00 pst and ask for Brian Hartman. He will personally talk to you and answer ALL of your questions and address ALL of your concerns. Converters are also available with our exclusive 9X11 lock ups and billet non lock up converters.
Bruce
WE4
