That was very interesting. I can say that I will take a g body suspension/brakes over a body any day. Of course the a body is carrying more weight. The 73 up gm midsize , like greand-am, century, etc did improve, at least they didnt pinch the tire edge anymore. Pontiac called it "radial tuned suspension".
What makes the Blazer spindles better than the stockers?
- Thread starter Rafs-T-Type
- Start date
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
You have to understand, that for safety issues and production pusposes, the front suspension is designed so that it will cause a car not to excede the limits of the driver. We've all seen what can happen when you put a 16 or 17 YO kid behind the wheel of a performance car and they get stupid. The suspension is a compromise between performance and normal driving. The safest way to make a car is to make it so that the car can't be driven past a point where the average driver will wreck and hurt themselves or someone else. This would cause lawsuits out the ass for car manufactures. While most of us are older and now understand how to keep from exceding our abilities while driving the general public doesn't. The suspension of the G body car was designed not as a high performance car but as a grocery getter, that's why the issues we see as draw backs are there.
To properly correct all the issues with the car you'd need a completely different frame and start from a blank sheet of paper. What we are doing is improving the design and over coming some of the stock design short comings. Now that I've said that we'll get to the info.
As far as the stock steering knuckle goes, it's weak only in one place. The arm that attaches the tie rods has an issue with bending under high load. The Blazer spindle is stronger in this area and doesn't have this problem near as much. The spindle is a direct bolt on but other than the bigger brakes it doesn't improve or detract from any of the suspension issues that the stock spindle has.
The bearings of the Blazer spindle are it's weak point though. One of the reasons for this is the fact that it's not really a sealed unit. If you look at the back it's open and not really sealed. Depending on where you get the bearings there may or may not have a cap on the outside of it. The inside of the bearing unit goes into the spindle and it's closed off but there's a large space that is just empty. If you pack this area with grease then the bearing will get some extra lube when things get hot. The grease will become slightly liquid and work it's way into the bearing instead of leaving the stock grease in it. If the outside doesn't have a cap in the hole then find a freeze plug and drive it in so that it will keep crap out of it.
Bearings usually fail due to heat and lack of lubrication. One other thing you may be able to do is to add a grease zerk to the knuckle itself. I've been looking at this and the most likely place to do this is either where the ABS sensor goes into the bearing or at the back of the knuckle. This would allow you to "repack" the bearing at different intervales so it will hold up better. They are heavier, but in contrast, so are the other solutions to put a bigger front brake on the car. There is no way to get around it. If you increase the brake rotor size you will increase unsprung weight.
The nice thing about using the Blazer spindle is that you get a bigger rotor and a dual piston caliper that will fit under a 15" rim in most cases. This does increase stopping power, which all of know is lacking on a G body car. There are other solutions to this as well but they each have drawbacks. I did a little measuring on the Blazer, B body, and stock spindles the other day. What I did find is that the G body and the Blazer spindle are the same height but the B body spindle is 1" taller.
The B body spindle however has a different attachment point of the tie rod. Both the legnth of the arm and the position of it creates bump steer issues due to the changes of location. Yes, you can correct it, but then you have more parts that you have to get, not to mention the expensive upper control arms. The Blazer spindle is the least expensive upgrade for the brakes and still keep all the rest of the issues at the same level. If you add the taller ball joints then you do help with the camber curve but still have the bump steer issues that you started with. In other words, the tire on the outside of the curve you're going into will still "knuckle" under and ride on the outside of the tire instead of lay flat on the tread like we want.
Adding the taller ball joints will reduce the effect of the tire riding on the outside of the tread while cornering and this is the least expensive way to acomplish this for the least amount of money. If you then get one of the "bump steer correction" kits then you will have improved the overall performance of the front suspension as much as you can with out making a new frame from scratch.
i got bored once and found a bearing/race combo that allows you to use the early 80's HD 1/2 ton 2wd GM truck rotor on a G body spindle.. whip up a bracket and you could use the truck caliper and have 12X1.25" rotors and calipers that will fit inside a 15" wheel.. the only drawback is the 5X5 bolt pattern and matching bigger center hub diameter.. you could also use the LS1 F body caliper with this, too, but i don't know if it's physically bigger than the heavy cast iron truck caliper..
Pittsburghkid
Displacement Replacement.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
You have to understand, that for safety issues and production pusposes, the front suspension is designed so that it will cause a car not to excede the limits of the driver. We've all seen what can happen when you put a 16 or 17 YO kid behind the wheel of a performance car and they get stupid. The suspension is a compromise between performance and normal driving. The safest way to make a car is to make it so that the car can't be driven past a point where the average driver will wreck and hurt themselves or someone else. This would cause lawsuits out the ass for car manufactures. While most of us are older and now understand how to keep from exceding our abilities while driving the general public doesn't. The suspension of the G body car was designed not as a high performance car but as a grocery getter, that's why the issues we see as draw backs are there.
To properly correct all the issues with the car you'd need a completely different frame and start from a blank sheet of paper. What we are doing is improving the design and over coming some of the stock design short comings. Now that I've said that we'll get to the info.
As far as the stock steering knuckle goes, it's weak only in one place. The arm that attaches the tie rods has an issue with bending under high load. The Blazer spindle is stronger in this area and doesn't have this problem near as much. The spindle is a direct bolt on but other than the bigger brakes it doesn't improve or detract from any of the suspension issues that the stock spindle has.
The bearings of the Blazer spindle are it's weak point though. One of the reasons for this is the fact that it's not really a sealed unit. If you look at the back it's open and not really sealed. Depending on where you get the bearings there may or may not have a cap on the outside of it. The inside of the bearing unit goes into the spindle and it's closed off but there's a large space that is just empty. If you pack this area with grease then the bearing will get some extra lube when things get hot. The grease will become slightly liquid and work it's way into the bearing instead of leaving the stock grease in it. If the outside doesn't have a cap in the hole then find a freeze plug and drive it in so that it will keep crap out of it.
Bearings usually fail due to heat and lack of lubrication. One other thing you may be able to do is to add a grease zerk to the knuckle itself. I've been looking at this and the most likely place to do this is either where the ABS sensor goes into the bearing or at the back of the knuckle. This would allow you to "repack" the bearing at different intervales so it will hold up better. They are heavier, but in contrast, so are the other solutions to put a bigger front brake on the car. There is no way to get around it. If you increase the brake rotor size you will increase unsprung weight.
The nice thing about using the Blazer spindle is that you get a bigger rotor and a dual piston caliper that will fit under a 15" rim in most cases. This does increase stopping power, which all of know is lacking on a G body car. There are other solutions to this as well but they each have drawbacks. I did a little measuring on the Blazer, B body, and stock spindles the other day. What I did find is that the G body and the Blazer spindle are the same height but the B body spindle is 1" taller.
The B body spindle however has a different attachment point of the tie rod. Both the legnth of the arm and the position of it creates bump steer issues due to the changes of location. Yes, you can correct it, but then you have more parts that you have to get, not to mention the expensive upper control arms. The Blazer spindle is the least expensive upgrade for the brakes and still keep all the rest of the issues at the same level. If you add the taller ball joints then you do help with the camber curve but still have the bump steer issues that you started with. In other words, the tire on the outside of the curve you're going into will still "knuckle" under and ride on the outside of the tire instead of lay flat on the tread like we want.
Adding the taller ball joints will reduce the effect of the tire riding on the outside of the tread while cornering and this is the least expensive way to acomplish this for the least amount of money. If you then get one of the "bump steer correction" kits then you will have improved the overall performance of the front suspension as much as you can with out making a new frame from scratch.
Where would you get the bump steer correction kit and what does it consist of?
Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
I found this kit - Baer Brake 3301001 Baer Tracker Bump Steer Adjuster Kit
The drawback is that you'll need to cut the steering knuckle up to do it. You could use the 12" rotor off the IROC camaro and do the same thing, but I really don't want to cut up the stock spindle myslef.
The Baer kit is one or you can get it from Hotchkis and several other places. I can offer one for the same as the Baer one posted below for about the same but it includes both inner tie rods.
I'm looking at quite a few parts right now and opening up a store of my own to sell a "poor mans" suspension upgrade package. ScottW and I have been doing this together and have come out with some really good parts that will help you get a better handling car for much less than you would normally have to spend to get tubular uppers that are adjustable for caster and replacement lower bushings that aren't rubber or poly so the ride will be much nicer and no squeeks.:biggrin:The one I may be selling has the inner tie rods as well but it's about the same.
Pittsburghkid
Displacement Replacement.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
Thanks guys. I still have a long suspension list and its just getting longer. I cant keep up.
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
The drawback is that you'll need to cut the steering knuckle up to do it. You could use the 12" rotor off the IROC camaro and do the same thing, but I really don't want to cut up the stock spindle myslef.
the easy answer is the get an extra set of spindles from a junkyard and modify those .. some places would probably sell regular old S10 2wd spindles cheaper than G body spindles if they don't know they are the same thing..
the 12" rotor off the 1LE F body is different than the 12" HD truck rotor- if you do a lot of heavy braking (like, say, on a road course) the extra mass of the thicker HD truck rotor will act as more of a heat sink. the only downside i can think of is the bigger wheel bolt pattern and center hub diameter and slightly more unsprung and rotating mass.
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