Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
What improvements do they offer?
What makes the Blazer spindles better than the stockers?
- Thread starter Rafs-T-Type
- Start date
Other than the obvious bigger brakes there is one other thing. The spindle was redesigned and the part where the tie rod bolts onto is stronger than the stock G body or S-10 spindle. It is not unusual to see that part of the stock spindle bent. They do make braces for them but the better designed spindle doesn't need them. The dropped spindles are also stronger than the stock in this location, but I honestly can't recomend a dropped spindle for any purpose.
83hurstguy
Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2005
It's an opinion... there are pros and cons to the swap. Some people like them, some people would rather upgrade the brakes on a stock spindle.
The pros: it's a newer spindle (I got mine with 14k miles on them), so they are in really nice shape, the ball joint tapers are in good shape, slip on rotors are cheap, you get bigger brakes (11"x1") with dual piston calipers (and it is a nice improvement, I had brand new stock brakes on mine, switched to the blazer brakes and was very pleased), also you can add C5 brakes easily. The blazer brakes will clear small wheels, though it may require slight grinding on the abutments (I had to for Olds wheels b/c they all have 14" centers).
The cons: if you don't know the source, it could have been in an accident and damaged, the brakes are fairly heavy because the calipers are cast iron, the sealed replaced bearings aren't cheap, my front calipers have never been rebuilt but have some slight drag that I can never get rid of (and I've heard of others with similar complaints, even though all the pins are free, everything lines up, and I have a new stock master cylinder on the car with no residual valves).
Go ahead and compare them against a set of Baers or Wilwoods for what you get and make up your mind what you would want to do. Most brake packages are dictated by the wheels you run. Under stock wheels, you don't have a ton of options for a regular street driven car, as a lot of the lightweight drag brake packages aren't meant to be driven regularly with repeated stops.
The pros: it's a newer spindle (I got mine with 14k miles on them), so they are in really nice shape, the ball joint tapers are in good shape, slip on rotors are cheap, you get bigger brakes (11"x1") with dual piston calipers (and it is a nice improvement, I had brand new stock brakes on mine, switched to the blazer brakes and was very pleased), also you can add C5 brakes easily. The blazer brakes will clear small wheels, though it may require slight grinding on the abutments (I had to for Olds wheels b/c they all have 14" centers).
The cons: if you don't know the source, it could have been in an accident and damaged, the brakes are fairly heavy because the calipers are cast iron, the sealed replaced bearings aren't cheap, my front calipers have never been rebuilt but have some slight drag that I can never get rid of (and I've heard of others with similar complaints, even though all the pins are free, everything lines up, and I have a new stock master cylinder on the car with no residual valves).
Go ahead and compare them against a set of Baers or Wilwoods for what you get and make up your mind what you would want to do. Most brake packages are dictated by the wheels you run. Under stock wheels, you don't have a ton of options for a regular street driven car, as a lot of the lightweight drag brake packages aren't meant to be driven regularly with repeated stops.
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
you get to think it's better because the bearings cost over $100 for each side instead of $12.. you get to think it's better because you gain 1/4" of braking surface radius.. you get to think it's better because the calipers have an extra piston.. you get to think it's better because the rotor is separate from the hub.. you get to think it's better because it was designed 20 years later..
i think i just about covered it..
i think i just about covered it..
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
you can run bigger brakes on a stock spindle with a minimal amount of work and a simple bracket, too..
and honestly, how many of those people that rave about how much more awesome their brakes are after swapping to the Blazer parts would know the difference between all new stock replacement parts on a stock spindle and all new stock replacement parts on a Blazer spindle- think of it like the old Coke vs Pepsi blind taste test, but with brakes..
83hurstguy
Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2005
you must not have read my post above... went from new Raybestos rotors, rebuilt calipers, ceramic pads AND stainless lines, to the blazer swap. Big improvement.
It was more like going from Coke to Coke with some Captain... you're much happier once you finish the glass.
IrvJr
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Its nice you assume people dont know their cars as well as you know their cars.
I did the S10 Blazer dual piston swap for about $360.00 total. That was the S10 spindle assembly, new slotted rotors, ceramic pads, stainless brake lines, and brake fluid!
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
i got the whole setup for 85 bucks at the jy. i would have had 40 bucks in just buying backing plates for my stock brakes. I find it hard to believe it won't a be a noticable upgrade since the pad is bigger and the caliper more evenly distributes pressure across the pad. I doubt gm would have bothered on doing this on the blazer and not the s10 if it didn't make a difference. Yeah hub bearings may be expensive, but if they were junk don't you think gm would have stopped using them? It definitely isn't a cost issue. THe s10 brakes may not be the equivalent of the hydroboost upgrade but they sure should be a difference. For what I paid for everything down to the lines, they're going on my car. I'd rather replace a hub bearing than sit there and piss around greasing bearings
Well after doing a little research there may be a couple of brake options that will provide both a thicker replacement rotor that will fit as well as a larger one that may work. I will be keeping the info quiet right now while I figure out if this will work or not, but both rotors are thicker and one may just work without any mods to the Blazer set up. If it works then I'll most lkely be posting the thicker stock replacement but the larger one will require a bracket that I'll have to make and maybe market. This would be a lot less expensive then doing the B body spindle swap and make the brakes even better than they are.
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
If only it was this easy Mod: Convert GA front brakes to Corvette brakes - Grand Am Owners Club Forums
1st.turbo.car
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
I'm glad I seen this post in process of blazer brake swap thanks everyone would love to see some pics with cross drilled an slotted rotors on the blazer swap
As far as spindle strength, how many have actually had an issue unless it was from a wreck? What I have wondered is does it yeild superior geometry results? i know that GM A body cars thru 1972 had an issue of negative roll center. It would cause terribleg outer edge wear on tires because the dominant turning tire would tilt (negative camber) outward on a turn. B body spindles were the answer there.
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
the problem with the early A body setup was either that the spindle was too short or the upper arm was mounted too high.. a taller spindle fixes that, but then you have the problem of loss of turnign radius and bumpsteer with the tall spindles.. the best solution for those cars is a taller upper balljoint that essentially makes the spindle taller and/or different steering arms to better line up the arcs of the tie rod with the lower arm.
G bodies have similar issue- which is why you can get tall upper ball joints for them, too.
I cant picture what causes the negative roll center or why making spindle taller fixes the problem. It is amazing that the A bodies were this flawed..you can see how retarded the tire looks on a turn and it looks like something is very wrong! I cant see why it puts so much pos camber only in a turn. I meant to say positive camber in my previous post. Given what you said, it makes me glad i didnt do the b body upgrade to my 71 gto. Can you say what ball joint works best on my aforementioned 71 gto? thanks
One of the mods on roddersroundatable has been putting the vette brakes on stock G-body spindles for years with a bracket he makes for the calipers and a simple change of bearings to match the hats needs. So while I like the beefiness idea, I don't see needing Blazer spindles with expensive bearings for that. I've got to wonder if the addition of unsprung weight is worth it when other opportunities exist. Has anybody looked into what races would fit, or could be turned to fit into those hats for a standard bearing? That's where I'd be looking. If there isn't a need for stupid expensive bearings, then what else fits, or would with a few minutes on the lathe to trim the race's OD?
You have to understand, that for safety issues and production pusposes, the front suspension is designed so that it will cause a car not to excede the limits of the driver. We've all seen what can happen when you put a 16 or 17 YO kid behind the wheel of a performance car and they get stupid. The suspension is a compromise between performance and normal driving. The safest way to make a car is to make it so that the car can't be driven past a point where the average driver will wreck and hurt themselves or someone else. This would cause lawsuits out the ass for car manufactures. While most of us are older and now understand how to keep from exceding our abilities while driving the general public doesn't. The suspension of the G body car was designed not as a high performance car but as a grocery getter, that's why the issues we see as draw backs are there.
To properly correct all the issues with the car you'd need a completely different frame and start from a blank sheet of paper. What we are doing is improving the design and over coming some of the stock design short comings. Now that I've said that we'll get to the info.
As far as the stock steering knuckle goes, it's weak only in one place. The arm that attaches the tie rods has an issue with bending under high load. The Blazer spindle is stronger in this area and doesn't have this problem near as much. The spindle is a direct bolt on but other than the bigger brakes it doesn't improve or detract from any of the suspension issues that the stock spindle has.
The bearings of the Blazer spindle are it's weak point though. One of the reasons for this is the fact that it's not really a sealed unit. If you look at the back it's open and not really sealed. Depending on where you get the bearings there may or may not have a cap on the outside of it. The inside of the bearing unit goes into the spindle and it's closed off but there's a large space that is just empty. If you pack this area with grease then the bearing will get some extra lube when things get hot. The grease will become slightly liquid and work it's way into the bearing instead of leaving the stock grease in it. If the outside doesn't have a cap in the hole then find a freeze plug and drive it in so that it will keep crap out of it.
Bearings usually fail due to heat and lack of lubrication. One other thing you may be able to do is to add a grease zerk to the knuckle itself. I've been looking at this and the most likely place to do this is either where the ABS sensor goes into the bearing or at the back of the knuckle. This would allow you to "repack" the bearing at different intervales so it will hold up better. They are heavier, but in contrast, so are the other solutions to put a bigger front brake on the car. There is no way to get around it. If you increase the brake rotor size you will increase unsprung weight.
The nice thing about using the Blazer spindle is that you get a bigger rotor and a dual piston caliper that will fit under a 15" rim in most cases. This does increase stopping power, which all of know is lacking on a G body car. There are other solutions to this as well but they each have drawbacks. I did a little measuring on the Blazer, B body, and stock spindles the other day. What I did find is that the G body and the Blazer spindle are the same height but the B body spindle is 1" taller.
The B body spindle however has a different attachment point of the tie rod. Both the legnth of the arm and the position of it creates bump steer issues due to the changes of location. Yes, you can correct it, but then you have more parts that you have to get, not to mention the expensive upper control arms. The Blazer spindle is the least expensive upgrade for the brakes and still keep all the rest of the issues at the same level. If you add the taller ball joints then you do help with the camber curve but still have the bump steer issues that you started with. In other words, the tire on the outside of the curve you're going into will still "knuckle" under and ride on the outside of the tire instead of lay flat on the tread like we want.
Adding the taller ball joints will reduce the effect of the tire riding on the outside of the tread while cornering and this is the least expensive way to acomplish this for the least amount of money. If you then get one of the "bump steer correction" kits then you will have improved the overall performance of the front suspension as much as you can with out making a new frame from scratch.
To properly correct all the issues with the car you'd need a completely different frame and start from a blank sheet of paper. What we are doing is improving the design and over coming some of the stock design short comings. Now that I've said that we'll get to the info.
As far as the stock steering knuckle goes, it's weak only in one place. The arm that attaches the tie rods has an issue with bending under high load. The Blazer spindle is stronger in this area and doesn't have this problem near as much. The spindle is a direct bolt on but other than the bigger brakes it doesn't improve or detract from any of the suspension issues that the stock spindle has.
The bearings of the Blazer spindle are it's weak point though. One of the reasons for this is the fact that it's not really a sealed unit. If you look at the back it's open and not really sealed. Depending on where you get the bearings there may or may not have a cap on the outside of it. The inside of the bearing unit goes into the spindle and it's closed off but there's a large space that is just empty. If you pack this area with grease then the bearing will get some extra lube when things get hot. The grease will become slightly liquid and work it's way into the bearing instead of leaving the stock grease in it. If the outside doesn't have a cap in the hole then find a freeze plug and drive it in so that it will keep crap out of it.
Bearings usually fail due to heat and lack of lubrication. One other thing you may be able to do is to add a grease zerk to the knuckle itself. I've been looking at this and the most likely place to do this is either where the ABS sensor goes into the bearing or at the back of the knuckle. This would allow you to "repack" the bearing at different intervales so it will hold up better. They are heavier, but in contrast, so are the other solutions to put a bigger front brake on the car. There is no way to get around it. If you increase the brake rotor size you will increase unsprung weight.
The nice thing about using the Blazer spindle is that you get a bigger rotor and a dual piston caliper that will fit under a 15" rim in most cases. This does increase stopping power, which all of know is lacking on a G body car. There are other solutions to this as well but they each have drawbacks. I did a little measuring on the Blazer, B body, and stock spindles the other day. What I did find is that the G body and the Blazer spindle are the same height but the B body spindle is 1" taller.
The B body spindle however has a different attachment point of the tie rod. Both the legnth of the arm and the position of it creates bump steer issues due to the changes of location. Yes, you can correct it, but then you have more parts that you have to get, not to mention the expensive upper control arms. The Blazer spindle is the least expensive upgrade for the brakes and still keep all the rest of the issues at the same level. If you add the taller ball joints then you do help with the camber curve but still have the bump steer issues that you started with. In other words, the tire on the outside of the curve you're going into will still "knuckle" under and ride on the outside of the tire instead of lay flat on the tread like we want.
Adding the taller ball joints will reduce the effect of the tire riding on the outside of the tread while cornering and this is the least expensive way to acomplish this for the least amount of money. If you then get one of the "bump steer correction" kits then you will have improved the overall performance of the front suspension as much as you can with out making a new frame from scratch.
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