Which Fuel hanger

[Azrial89]

I'm trying to get my parts for my fuel upgrade squared away. With the advice from Nick Micale, I will be using a DW pump. But what fuel hanger will support this pump? Foolishly I jumped at a racetronix hanger at a good price before checking compatibility! D'oh! Thanks

 

[turbotroy]

Hey bro, which dw pump?

 

[Azrial89]

It's gonna be the DW 300

 

[turbotroy]

Don't know if this will help but a post by Coach "I need a new fp" showed how he modified a dw to fit a stock hangar.

 

[Racetronix]

I'm trying to get my parts for my fuel upgrade squared away. With the advice from Nick Micale, I will be using a DW pump. But what fuel hanger will support this pump? Foolishly I jumped at a racetronix hanger at a good price before checking compatibility! D'oh! Thanks

There is nobody making a fuel hanger that is designed to install a import-style pump with an offset 11mm inlet. All mounts and grommets are designed for 22mm centered or 19mmm offset-inlet pumps. If you are looking for a TRUE E-85 compatible pump then this is the only TRUE solution:

http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=FPS-G7W416EAN&eq=&Tp=

If you are looking for a DW style pump, we now offer our new RXP340M 340LPH pumps:
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=RXP340M&eq=&Tp=

 

[Nick Micale]

I did not know there was a "true" e-85 pump, but DW has been making pumps for a couple years or more that work and perform fine with e-85, or else why would DW give an UNCONDITIONAL 3 year free replacement on their pumps?

I hope the "true" one is better, as I have a pile of Walbro pumps from GN's that did not last even a year?

Jack does sell some good products, but there are alternatives just as good, sometimes better.

Personally, I have installed many DW pumps, including the newer DW 400 pump, in stock hangers as well as the new Specter hanger, and they fit just fine.

A tip on installing any pump is to line up the sock with the sender float for easier installation of the unit through the access hole in the top of the tank.

On stock hangers, we prefer not to use the old factory wiring of the crappy connector through the top. We remove that connector and just bring the power and ground wire from the pump to the hot wire relay and the ground wire to the engine and then seal the connector hole.

The sender for the fuel gauge is not a critical item like the pump, so the stock wiring works ok for that.

 

[Racetronix]

I did not know there was a "true" e-85 pump, but DW has been making pumps for a couple years or more that work and perform fine with e-85, or else why would DW give an UNCONDITIONAL 3 year free replacement on their pumps?

I hope the "true" one is better, as I have a pile of Walbro pumps from GN's that did not last even a year?

Jack does sell some good products, but there are alternatives just as good, sometimes better.

Personally, I have installed many DW pumps, including the newer DW 400 pump, in stock hangers as well as the new Specter hanger, and they fit just fine.

A tip on installing any pump is to line up the sock with the sender float for easier installation of the unit through the access hole in the top of the tank.

On stock hangers, we prefer not to use the old factory wiring of the crappy connector through the top. We remove that connector and just bring the power and ground wire from the pump to the hot wire relay and the ground wire to the engine and then seal the connector hole.

The sender for the fuel gauge is not a critical item like the pump, so the stock wiring works ok for that.

A true E-85 pump is one in which all-internal materials are resistant to alcohol and the electrical parts are not exposed to the fuel. The Walbro F90000267 is the only HP pump on the market, which meets SAE E-85 certification specs. This is the one we use in our E-85 sender assembly. The Walbro F90000267 430LPH pump is a dual-turbine pump so it is just as resistant to contamination / failure as a DW pump. Gear-rotor pumps are not as forgiving b/c of their tightly meshing gears. Turbine pumps generally run at a much higher RPM so they tend to draw a bit more power and heat the fuel a bit more. The Walbro F90000267 430LPH pump uses a larger dual-turbine (mushroomed bottom) so that it does not have to spin as fast, heats the fuel less and handles hot fuel better.
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=F90000267&eq=&Tp=
Our RXP340M pump is made in the same factory and with the same materials as the DW300 pump and we openly admit it is not a true E-85 pump.
The RXP340M may fair better than a Walbro gear-rotor pump (GSS340M or GSS294M) in E85 b/c it uses a turbine instead of metal gears.
Warranty in this case is a function of the sales margins, which allow for liberal return policies without sustaining financial losses.

Fitting 'properly' vs. 'just fine' is a matter of opinion here. Will an import-style pump fit a GN hanger? Yes, it can be done but the results are less than optimal when compared to a proper fitting pump and mounting grommet. This is why we manufacture a laser CNC-cut SS mouting bracket specifically made for the DCSS E-85 pump used on our FPS-G7W416EAN sender assembly.
There is no other hanger on the market, which has the same features as ours. Our stainless senders flow better and offers a superior electrical solution when compared to any modified stock replacement hanger PERIOD!
Racetronix will be offering the new RXP340M pump pre-installed in our high-performance G7 AN hanger in the next couple of weeks. Why pay the same price for a Delphi or Spectra hanger and end up with an inferior unit requiring modification?

 

[Azrial89]

Well I bought the the G7 hanger to put in my tank and Racetronix said that the DW was not compatible. Not even touching on it may be modified to accommodate the DW. I was just given a list of there recommended pumps in their opinion. It's nice to find out that it can be modified and I can save my restocking and shipping costs and just put a little more work into using what I have, thanks. Nick, I will be calling you later this week when I have some time to chat about the procedures and upgrades to wiring required.

 

[Racetronix]

Well I bought the the G7 hanger to put in my tank and Racetronix said that the DW was not compatible. Not even touching on it may be modified to accommodate the DW. I was just given a list of there recommended pumps in their opinion. It's nice to find out that it can be modified and I can save my restocking and shipping costs and just put a little more work into using what I have, thanks. Nick, I will be calling you later this week when I have some time to chat about the procedures and upgrades to wiring required.

Anything can be modified but to what end? It would be foolhardy to chop up the sender just to install a pump, which was never meant to be used in the first place.
Why would you not send back the pump and get a proper one from your supplier. The proper approach is to use a pump that is 100% compatible with the sender. Ripping out a vapor-proof connector and Teflon wiring capable of supporting 28 amps to replace it with plastic-jacketed wire and glue is 100% MacGyver.

It is unfortunate that you do not appreciate the sender design and that you are misguided in your approach.

Perhaps you should send it back for a refund and Nick can sell you some Spectra unit to hack up.

 

[czimpel]

Just put a DW 300 pump in my stock hanger with no issues. You need to modify the pump to make it work, but it's a solid mod.

 

[Azrial89]

I would hardly call the information that I have received personally from someone with the credentials such as Mr. Micale "Misguided" for someone who has more than fifty years of automotive experience and close to thirty years of Turbo Buick experience I feel confident in his "Misguided" (ROLL EYES) information. He has demonstrated a superior knowledge towards the fuel system of these cars due to the relentless pursuit of making it better through his own tireless efforts. For these reasons I will be taking his advice, and I also thank him for doing all of the product testing that brought heartaches and triumphs to make life easier for other members of this community

 

[Nick Micale]

...........Perhaps you should send it back for a refund and Nick can sell you some Spectra unit to hack up.

Jack, you need to control your ego, as a few of us have much more experience in actually making the cars perform in the real world than you posses.

I never expected an attack like this from you since years ago I took your late night calls complaining that some board members were posting un-flattering comments about you, and you asked me for help then, and now I am "misguided"?

At that time we did exchange information, and felt we had a good relationship. But now that I sell the DW pump because I was sick and tired of the many issues with Walbro pumps over the years, and wanted my customers to be provided with a better, more reliable product, I am now the enemy?

At times I may have had a different solution for an issue than you, but that is no reason to degrade me? Many people do things different from what I do.

I do not claim to know everything about GN fuel systems, but I have found and solved many issues over the years which is where I gained the little knowledge I have, and am willing to share it to help others.

Over the years you have demonstrated your "true" character as KING of the fuel injection world, and no one should question your authority?

Up to this point I have sent many of my customers to your for items I have installed because you do have good products, but do you think I will continue?

I do not need or plan to say or do anything bad about you or your business, as the customers and members will make their own decision based upon your attitude.

 

[PLAINWHITE T]

As spelled out in my signature, I'm using a DW w/G7 Racetronix hanger. No other mods to fuel lines and no pressure issues at idle and no hanger mods were necessary. I agree with Mr. Micale that the heavier gauge wiring like that supplied by the Racetronix hanger and good solid grounds are essential for running this, or any other higher volume pump...ask me how I know.

 

[Racetronix]

Jack, you need to control your ego, as a few of us have much more experience in actually making the cars perform in the real world than you posses.

I never expected an attack like this from you since years ago I took your late night calls complaining that some board members were posting un-flattering comments about you, and you asked me for help then, and now I am "misguided"?

At that time we did exchange information, and felt we had a good relationship. But now that I sell the DW pump because I was sick and tired of the many issues with Walbro pumps over the years, and wanted my customers to be provided with a better, more reliable product, I am now the enemy?

At times I may have had a different solution for an issue than you, but that is no reason to degrade me? Many people do things different from what I do.

I do not claim to know everything about GN fuel systems, but I have found and solved many issues over the years which is where I gained the little knowledge I have, and am willing to share it to help others.

Over the years you have demonstrated your "true" character as KING of the fuel injection world, and no one should question your authority?

Up to this point I have sent many of my customers to your for items I have installed because you do have good products, but do you think I will continue?

I do not need or plan to say or do anything bad about you or your business, as the customers and members will make their own decision based upon your attitude.

Nick, I hardly consider the use of the term ’misguided’ an all out attack on you. What I do take issue with is this re-occurring issue with customers feeling that they need to modify our re-designed hangers b/c you repeatedly tell people that they should run wires directly from the pump to the battery. Perhaps you should clarify your statements to customers so that they understand that your view applies to factory-type senders (Delphi, Spectra) which use 16-gauge over-molded bulkhead connectors and in-tank wiring. The Racetronix sender uses dual feeds on both the positive and negative side with a nominal current capacity of 28 amps. The voltage-drop when using any in-tank pump is in the millivolt range so customers have nothing to gain from changing it out. What they will lose is a certified vapor-proof Delphi bulkhead connector and a modular harness that is made of the most fuel-resistant Teflon wire. Running plastic-jacketed wires through the top of a sender and putting sealant around them is less than an ideal solution for a number of reasons:

1. Teflon wire should be used with ethanol-enhanced gasoline but due to the impervious nature of Teflon, no adhesive will properly stick to it and allow for a vapor-proof seal.
2. Unless a wire is impregnated with sealant, it will degrade over time and wick the fuel up its length allowing vapors to exit the tank. The bulkhead connector creates a blocking point for this with its 100% vapor-proof seal.
3. If the sealant allows the wires to shift, they could chafe on the metal edges of the entry hole possibly causing a short and a fire.

We have also had discussions about TR grounding issues. I have run many tests on TR’s and I can guarantee you that if the grounds are good/upgraded, the cross sectional area of the frame will provide more than enough current carrying capacity with minimal resistance such that dedicated copper grounds running to the battery for each circuit are unwarranted. Fix the grounding systems and all components will benefit, not just the fuel pump.

I never claimed to be the KING of anything but I do stand by my technical statements. I have had my GN for over 25 years and have serviced the local market since 1989. Racetronix is over ten years old now but my experience with electrical and fuel systems on these cars dates back to the late 80’s. I have met many old-timers in this industry who are slow to adopt new ideas and technology. I do not bestow credit on people simply for the number of years they have been in the industry or because they have a fast car or deep pockets but rather the knowledge they posses and the caliber of products and solutions they bring to the market.

My statement above was made out of frustration with the customer (for obvious reasons) and not directed at you.

J

 

[Nick Micale]

.....On stock hangers, we prefer not to use the old factory wiring of the crappy connector through the top. We remove that connector and just bring the power and ground wire from the pump to the hot wire relay and the ground wire to the engine and then seal the connector hole......

I accept your apology Jack , but read my post again as I said stock, like over 25 years old!

I have never told anyone to modify any new hanger, especially yours.

 

[Azrial89]

Pump, Tank, Hanger and Hotwire kit were installed last weekend and work better than I had hoped. Thanks for the help!