Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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Chime in -------- What do you think? 
You can only choose 1.
You can only choose 1.
Which is better? Alky injection system or IC
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Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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Allright Otto.
You are my new hero and if we ever meet, remind me to buy you a few beers!
This was exactly the answer that was needed.
MANY times, there are arguments in the HA section regarding IC or Alky without knowlege of the details.
So, I thought I'd stirr up some "thinking" in this section by asking the question and ......... you blew my poll!
(LOL!!)Anyway, since you won the prize, I'll post what I wanted to post following some discussion. Here we go ............... :biggrin:
-----------------------------------
Which is better? Alky or IC
The reason you can only pick one, is because we like to say that "Alky is a chemical IC", but ........
Don't you think you needs LOTS more info to answer this question, and give informed advice? Some relevant question such as;
-What boost level do you want to run?
-What type of gas?
-Are you interested in maintaining the stock look?
-What is your HP goal?
-What is your mechanical competency?
-What is your budget?
-How often / miles do you put on the car?
-What is the mechanical condition of the motor and systems?
-What other mods do you have now?
For solid advice, the combination of answers to the questions may only provide one solution/answer.
Example;
- If you answer: "Stock Appearing", "93 Octane", "25 PSI", there is only one answer.
- If you answer "Don't care about appearance, and want 17 PSI on 93 octane", there is another asnwer.
You with me so far?
As for the argument that "IC's are low maintenance and generally safer than an Alky system", I agree.
But, what if you get sold "87 octane" instead of the 93 you thought you put in?
How "safe" is the IC by itself?
The IC won't default to the safe 87 octane level by itself will it?
As for the argument "Alky injection can blow your motor up", I somewhat disagree.
Alky injection has saved more motors than you may be aware off.
Now, if you get 87 octane instead of 93, you will get similar results of the IC set-up.
Remember, a defective or disconnected FPR hose, a bad fuel pump, plugged fuel filter, bad wiring, etc can also blow up your motor.
So' let's get past "alky is unsafe and unreliable" statements.
If you are going to push the TR drive train and its supporting systems, you will need to monitor something, no matter which direction you decide to take.
On a boosted motor, you will monitor primarily detonation, whether you run with and IC, or Alky injection.
So my advice?
It depends.
.
If we're talking a hotair, I would have to say an intercooler for sure.
If we're talking about upgrading an 86-87 car, I would say alky first until the stock intercooler became a restriction.
Got to go to work for a minute but I would love to elaborate in a minute.
If we're talking about upgrading an 86-87 car, I would say alky first until the stock intercooler became a restriction.
Got to go to work for a minute but I would love to elaborate in a minute.
How many guys here have had the chance to run just an intercooler for awhile and then run alky by itself for awhile? Anyone? What are your thoughts?
There are obviously pros and cons to both, but more pros for the intercoolers, thats why they come stock on most turbo'd cars!
There are obviously pros and cons to both, but more pros for the intercoolers, thats why they come stock on most turbo'd cars!
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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We are talking HA since the 86-87's already have an IC.
You can only pick one: Alky or IC
IMO, your answer is not a fair one.
If I said: "Stock appearing, 23 PSI on 93", would you still say intercooler?
(Carefull
.......LOL)The correct answer would be: It depends on your goals.
We are talking HA since the 86-87's already have an IC.
You can only pick one: Alky or IC
IMO, your answer is not a fair one.
If I said: "Stock appearing, 23 PSI on 93", would you still say intercooler?
(Carefull
The correct answer would be: It depends on your goals.
So much I could say about that one lol.
For stock appearing, 23psi on pump, I guess there's only one answer...
Honestly, I don't like the plumbing going everywhere on the intercooled hotair setups. That's why I chose to convert this car and build a killer hotair with another car.
intercooler. Alky isnt going to bring your intake charge temps down like an intercooler will. yes you will be able to run more boost on alky but you will be able to drop air temps way down with an intercooler making more power per pound of boost. best case would be both but im going with an intercooler.
Jerryl
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So, your answer to the questions is "it depends" correct? :wink:
Well, not sure about that my friend ........ my gut feeling tells me that alky is the better option.
This intuition is purely based on some data I collected.
I will say this; Razor is right on the $$$ about the cooling effects!
boostmaster
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Damn never thought I'd see the day you would be jumping ship. But in hind sight over the years you have been spending your life savings on your car trying to go faster instead of maximizing what you have. Stage motor or not how could Lee Thompson run consistent 10's on a stock Hot Air set up without alky. Even without the big motor he was running bottom 11's. Alky has been well documented for it's cooling effects well before they started using it on fighter planes in WWII. (Back when they had good gas by the way). The data is overwhelming on the benefits, just because we don't have the proper abilty to extract it's full effects wether it's due to design issues, plumbing, volume, improper atomization, poor intake design or whatever don't blame the alky. The bolt on intercooler negates all the guess work. Ultimately the best of both worlds would be both but all that da** plumbing is just plain ugly and makes a already hard to work on hot air even harder to work on. Funny even with many doing the intercooled conversion on the stock set up I have'nt seen any 10 second conversions (I may be wrong). Maybe despite all that the real issue is and has always been with or without intercooling poor intake design. But my vote is still for alky simply because I have experianced the benefits first hand. 12.8xx's right of the trailer 18psi no tuning 1/4 tank of 93. Only made 1 pass then put in the 110. Turbo's out right now but I plan on going back and due a full day of tuning with 93 and alky and see what the end result will be. I think the results will be suprising. I think bottom 12's high 11's is possible on pump and alky in a Hot Air. Stay tuned. Sorry for the long post Boost231 got my blood boiling. Cool84 if it ever comes to pass I can't what to see your true Hot Air set up with your skill level it should be killer.
Jerryl
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Boostmaster,
Don't think he (Boost231) is "jumping ship".
I think he implied "I am picking (going with) an IC" for this poll.
BRAD_PADGETT
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Alot of Hot Air in this thread. The reality is the only one posting real data is Jamie 6x2 and she does not have an intercooler. One Hot Air complete-Brad
Jerryl
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Not trying to avoid the answer, but "it depends".
You would also have to know the pressure drop accross the IC, the IC efficiency, the boost level and the fuel you want to run to "guess" the number.
Those are all factors in "guestimating" the performance advantage.
Few people have the time, $$$ and patience to test "back to back" IC/Alky at the track to come up with an exact number.
Only one sure way to tell; Show up at the track and make 3-5 runs each, back to back, and average them out.
80% the data and info is "Out there". You have to take some time and search for it.
Also, Alky and IC by themselves are not exactly the same thing.
Besides the cooling, Alky has the added benefits of: Fuel and octane!
I am not going to even attempt to explain and defend the laws of physics, and again end up misunderstood.
The laws don't change, you just verify them the best you can.
See, there have been many experiments with mixed/different results, so, it depends on the set-up and the data collection systems design.
Belief me, I am no expert and any performance number I share would be countered by the experts.
Besides, my car is pretty close to stock and runs mid-high 14's.
(Yes, I have the slips to prove it!)Here's part of the reason I said intercooler. Lets forget about filling tanks and all of that and only talk about performance. I do not believe alky will cool as well as a good intercooler. I've seen methanol cars still running intercoolers. You can spray more and more alky for more and more cooling but you will eventually get to to the point where it's displacing too much air. I do believe the intercooler will win in the cooling department. On my dad's car the IC was knocking charge temps down by over 120 degrees. Maybe someone with alky data on a hotair can add to this and prove me wrong. If I would've known we would have this discussion I would've injected it pre-intercooler just to collect data.
The only thing that may be keeping alky in the race is the fact that you have the cooling effect AND you can turn the boost up. Pound for pound of boost, I think the alky will lose. Pump gas to pump gas, the alky may win.
To conclude, alky may give you the performance of an intercooler as long as you take advantage of the octane and turn the boost up. Pound for pound of boost I would go with the intercooler. Naturally we want both.
The only thing that may be keeping alky in the race is the fact that you have the cooling effect AND you can turn the boost up. Pound for pound of boost, I think the alky will lose. Pump gas to pump gas, the alky may win.
To conclude, alky may give you the performance of an intercooler as long as you take advantage of the octane and turn the boost up. Pound for pound of boost I would go with the intercooler. Naturally we want both.
"Cool 84" you have a close combo that Melissa ran 9s in in street trim with Alky.. she has an old V4 with small inlets and outlets . Be curious what you run
on the Alky VS Intercooler .. to me Alky would be easier to install, MORE performance providing the tune up is good . We have played a LOT with it and it works great !! we are "Alkyholics" :biggrin: .. To me the best bang for the $$$ .. Another thing is that like an intercooler the power is there all the time. I am curious as I said in the other thread how many HA guys have used Alky
on the Alky VS Intercooler .. to me Alky would be easier to install, MORE performance providing the tune up is good . We have played a LOT with it and it works great !! we are "Alkyholics" :biggrin: .. To me the best bang for the $$$ .. Another thing is that like an intercooler the power is there all the time. I am curious as I said in the other thread how many HA guys have used Alky
"Cool 84" you have a close combo that Melissa ran 9s in in street trim with Alky.. she has an old V4 with small inlets and outlets . Be curious what you run
on the Alky VS Intercooler .. to me Alky would be easier to install, MORE performance providing the tune up is good . We have played a LOT with it and it works great !! we are "Alkyholics" :biggrin: .. To me the best bang for the $$$ .. Another thing is that like an intercooler the power is there all the time. I am curious as I said in the other thread how many HA guys have used Alky
I see you're never short on words as usual even if they're coming from the wrong place.
As sig says, no times. It ran "strong". How's that? It ran with/beat some 87s with similar combos so I would say about on par with any year GN with the same combo and boost level.
Just a FYI, I'm in the middle of a conversion so basically what you see in the sig but with a 6765DBB and stock headers. I don't expect to run any faster, just doing the conversion due to availability of parts for the 87s.
boostmaster
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My apology then, first let me take my foot out of my mouth and the other out of my a**.
That was the most comprehensive response you have ever given. My complements to you. Very much agreed.
"Cool 84" you have a close combo that Melissa ran 9s in in street trim with Alky.. she has an old V4 with small inlets and outlets . Be curious what you run
on the Alky VS Intercooler .. to me Alky would be easier to install, MORE performance providing the tune up is good . We have played a LOT with it and it works great !! we are "Alkyholics" :biggrin: .. To me the best bang for the $$$ .. Another thing is that like an intercooler the power is there all the time. I am curious as I said in the other thread how many HA guys have used Alky
Now that I think about it, you should bring TTA89 around just for old time's sake. You have just 2 months to argue the hotair thing before mine becomes just another IC car.
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