U
uwillose2
Guest
Assuming I turn the boost up to 22-23 with the Alky and run a 75 shot of NOs on a relatively stock GN?
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REDS HOT AIR
Buick Tweaker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 3,433
alky allows for more boost v/s octane fuel were nitrous is a power adder and you will need good fuel with it
U
uwillose2
Guest
yes, I'm aware of what they both do, but the real question is which is gonna provide for me more bang for the buck in leymans terms? (Also considering i will have to buy a scanmaster for the alky)
Stock Gn with a good fuel system, the correct chip, and a monitor device (scanmaster, I pefer directscan, turbolink) your best bang for the buck is nitrous.
If you have a better intercooler, bigger turbo, bigger injectors the alky system.
If you think about it what each cost- Turbo(600-700), intercooler (600-1000), downpipe (280-400), alky system (300), fuel pump (200), injectors (300-400) which will preform the same as nos kit (513), fuel pump (200).
Examples of 2 cars in at the track in Albuquerque Nm 1. t-51, v4 intercooler, msd 50's, 3" downpipe, fuel pump, volt booster, precision torque conveter,6x,xxx, jl race chip, race gas ran a 12.10
2 stock fuel pump(don't recommend) 75hp nos system, volt booster, race gas, stock turbo, stock intercooler, open exhaust, stock torque converter, 13x,xxx miles ran a 12.20
Seems like simple math to me. Others will say that you will need the race gas all the time with the nitrous but if you have you car set for kill you will need it all the time anyway. Then theres the $20-$30 to fill the nitrous bottle but again there is alot of money difference in the setups and you can fill that bottle alot of times with the diffference in price.
Just depends on your preferences.
Chuck
If you have a better intercooler, bigger turbo, bigger injectors the alky system.
If you think about it what each cost- Turbo(600-700), intercooler (600-1000), downpipe (280-400), alky system (300), fuel pump (200), injectors (300-400) which will preform the same as nos kit (513), fuel pump (200).
Examples of 2 cars in at the track in Albuquerque Nm 1. t-51, v4 intercooler, msd 50's, 3" downpipe, fuel pump, volt booster, precision torque conveter,6x,xxx, jl race chip, race gas ran a 12.10
2 stock fuel pump(don't recommend) 75hp nos system, volt booster, race gas, stock turbo, stock intercooler, open exhaust, stock torque converter, 13x,xxx miles ran a 12.20
Seems like simple math to me. Others will say that you will need the race gas all the time with the nitrous but if you have you car set for kill you will need it all the time anyway. Then theres the $20-$30 to fill the nitrous bottle but again there is alot of money difference in the setups and you can fill that bottle alot of times with the diffference in price.
Just depends on your preferences.
Chuck
Forgot to address the safer question. Nitrous is very safe if you insure you fuel system is up to power and your not to aggressive on the timing. My first Gn ran 75hp nitrous several hundred times with no problems. Ended up freshening it and everything looked great (bearings, pistons, rings, and heads).
Chuck
Chuck
U
uwillose2
Guest
Great INfo!
Now my question is that I don't want to run race gas all the time b/c i want it to have the same setup, street/track. I just had the walbro and adj Fpr put in, DO i need to run race gas with N20 or can I still stick with the 93 octane?
THx for the input. I'm gettin ready to order one or the other within the nesxt three days!
Now my question is that I don't want to run race gas all the time b/c i want it to have the same setup, street/track. I just had the walbro and adj Fpr put in, DO i need to run race gas with N20 or can I still stick with the 93 octane?
THx for the input. I'm gettin ready to order one or the other within the nesxt three days!
My point exactly,
LOOK QUICK is running at sea level what I can run with 75hp shot of nitrous and 93 gas. Those times from above are at 5300 ft of elevation and all we can get is 91 octane so with 93 and at sea level you can run 75hp nitrous on pump gas (with you timing around 18-19).
Seems cheaper to me.
Chuck
LOOK QUICK is running at sea level what I can run with 75hp shot of nitrous and 93 gas. Those times from above are at 5300 ft of elevation and all we can get is 91 octane so with 93 and at sea level you can run 75hp nitrous on pump gas (with you timing around 18-19).
Seems cheaper to me.
Chuck
Lets face it, a 75hp shot of NOS will net about 125HP in a turbocharged car due to the cooling effect. Alcohol will net aproximately 125HP total after turning up the boost and timing to their limits. (Assuming an all stock car with usual free mods)
I personally do not like having 2 power adders in one car. I get sh!t at work like "take that hair dryer off and leets race". All I have to say is yank a couple plug wires and then start talkin'. What I am saying is that NOS is cheap in the long run but is hard to justify on a car that already has so many options that will result in the same power without being considered a "cheaters method".
I have to vote for the alky, if somebody calls it cheating, tell them they can run it too. If that doesnt shut them up, double the bet and they will walk away. (hey, if they are complaining about what you have installed, they are scared anyways and you will probably hand them their A$$ in a race)
I personally do not like having 2 power adders in one car. I get sh!t at work like "take that hair dryer off and leets race". All I have to say is yank a couple plug wires and then start talkin'. What I am saying is that NOS is cheap in the long run but is hard to justify on a car that already has so many options that will result in the same power without being considered a "cheaters method".
I have to vote for the alky, if somebody calls it cheating, tell them they can run it too. If that doesnt shut them up, double the bet and they will walk away. (hey, if they are complaining about what you have installed, they are scared anyways and you will probably hand them their A$$ in a race)
U
uwillose2
Guest
Hmmmmmmmm
WEll, If I can recall we get 10-12 hp from every psi of boost, so from 16-23 psi of boost with alky will give approximately 70-84 more hp, correct? So my big question is why does NOs give 125 hp, and can i safely run that on pump gas?
WEll, If I can recall we get 10-12 hp from every psi of boost, so from 16-23 psi of boost with alky will give approximately 70-84 more hp, correct? So my big question is why does NOs give 125 hp, and can i safely run that on pump gas?
Depending where you live: If you live at sea level and pump gas is 93 octane you should be able to run 16lbs of boost with a 75hp shot of nitrous. I would have some way of monitoring knock (knock gage, direct scan) with a chip running 18-19 on the timing you should be Ok. You will see your boost jump up about 3lbs(because of the cooling effect of nitrous) with a 75 shot so if your set at 16 it will go to 19.
You get the extra juice from the nitrous because it is putting in more oxgyen and gas into the cylinders. It has the side benny of the cooling effect. The cooling alone will add hp (ie intercooler).
Chuck
You get the extra juice from the nitrous because it is putting in more oxgyen and gas into the cylinders. It has the side benny of the cooling effect. The cooling alone will add hp (ie intercooler).
Chuck
Wait a second.....nitrous is not an intercooler by any means.
It may cool the air rite until it hits the intake valve...past that point...fugedaboutit.Cylinder temps go way up with nitrous...hence the need for octane enrichment.
I like the safety of alky.And it doesnt hit the bottom end as hard.Thats why turbo motors last so long.And nitrous one's dont...generally
Look at any engine buildup for NOS,its pretty serious.And hyperpathetic pistons are not to nitrous tolerant.
Your engine tuneup better be there when you spray is all i'll say.
Cheers
It may cool the air rite until it hits the intake valve...past that point...fugedaboutit.Cylinder temps go way up with nitrous...hence the need for octane enrichment.
I like the safety of alky.And it doesnt hit the bottom end as hard.Thats why turbo motors last so long.And nitrous one's dont...generally
Look at any engine buildup for NOS,its pretty serious.And hyperpathetic pistons are not to nitrous tolerant.
Your engine tuneup better be there when you spray is all i'll say.
Cheers
U
uwillose2
Guest
I decided to go with alky! I ordered my SMC kit today! Next up is a scanmaster while i wait.
Nitrous is not an intercooler!!!!! HELLO was does an intercooler do? Cools down the intake charge. Don't know how much cooler you can get then inducing a nitrous charge. The reason for the extra heat is the extra fuel you are burning, not the nitrous. What other way can we add more oxygen and fuel to the engine? MORE BOOST, same affect just using a different method. You will hear guys say that you are cheating using Nitrous. I say fine you turn down your Boost because all I am doing is adding more fuel and oxygen just like you. I have heard of a couple of guys running alky instead of gas because it's more forgiving if you lean on the mixture. Alky will help with dentonation because it burns cooler.NOT AN INTERCOOLER
cHUCK
As stated before..up until it hits the intake valve
After that...cylinder temps go through the roof.Nitrous becuase of its reaction is harder on the bearings than is boost.Does the term crank angle degrees ring a bell
Look at bearings that come out of motors heavy on NOS.I guess the word that comes to mind is flattened.
There are those that swear by it...and there are those that wont.
Boost is more forgiving.And I need tons of forgiveness
So Chuck your stating that nitrous is the same as a frozen IC.In other words if the air were cooled to -127..it would have the same effect as nitrous.
Turbo cranks are plentiful.Careful how you lean on it.
After that...cylinder temps go through the roof.Nitrous becuase of its reaction is harder on the bearings than is boost.Does the term crank angle degrees ring a bell
Look at bearings that come out of motors heavy on NOS.I guess the word that comes to mind is flattened.
There are those that swear by it...and there are those that wont.
Boost is more forgiving.And I need tons of forgiveness
So Chuck your stating that nitrous is the same as a frozen IC.In other words if the air were cooled to -127..it would have the same effect as nitrous.
Turbo cranks are plentiful.Careful how you lean on it.
Turbo__Tim
One heck of a Tim!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 640
Good points by all. Razor is really saying that the cooling effect is off-set by the heat created from all the extra charge in the cylinder.
True the intake charge is cooled, but the same precautions have to be taken to avoid detonation. Less timing, ample fuel of proper octane, and even running lower compression with nitrous, are things to think about.
Most of us don't have experience with nitrous, so we do a lot of expensive things to get the same results. Front mounts, big necks, V-4's, larger turbo's that work effeciently at higher boost levels, adjustable fuel regulaters, high capacity fuel pumps, volt boosters, alchy injection, scan tools, egt meters, bigger cams, and finially performance heads to get the air in.
Whew, after typing that, I know where all MY money went!
Maybe we all would have been better off getting the fuel side up to snuff, then playing with the nitrous....
Naaaaaa....
True the intake charge is cooled, but the same precautions have to be taken to avoid detonation. Less timing, ample fuel of proper octane, and even running lower compression with nitrous, are things to think about.
Most of us don't have experience with nitrous, so we do a lot of expensive things to get the same results. Front mounts, big necks, V-4's, larger turbo's that work effeciently at higher boost levels, adjustable fuel regulaters, high capacity fuel pumps, volt boosters, alchy injection, scan tools, egt meters, bigger cams, and finially performance heads to get the air in.
Whew, after typing that, I know where all MY money went!
Maybe we all would have been better off getting the fuel side up to snuff, then playing with the nitrous....
Naaaaaa....
Boostnitup
Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2002
- Messages
- 701
Eat your heart out...
bah....
- Jack Cotton Front Mount
- Cheetah Stage 3 Turbo
- Blue top injectors
- walbro 340 fuel pump (Hot wired)
- Accel batch Dfi
...and that my friends is a Compucar Dual stage nitrous kit
MSN's Turbo Buick Website
bah....
- Jack Cotton Front Mount
- Cheetah Stage 3 Turbo
- Blue top injectors
- walbro 340 fuel pump (Hot wired)
- Accel batch Dfi
...and that my friends is a Compucar Dual stage nitrous kit
MSN's Turbo Buick Website
Check this post out, It is a real dual stage setup. Not just two nozzles but seven. If two is good seven must be better.
http://turbobuick.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=108562
http://turbobuick.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=108562
well well hi ya all
I don't think i need to say were i stand on this one. all i can say is that our motors can take quite a beating and you should give buick a little more credit. I think i am the only GN running a 7 nozzle dual stage NOS setup on a stock motor at well over 100,000 miles. i have pushed 23 pounds of boost with the spray on and the direct scan saying 50 knocks in just first gear and still blasted a 12.20 with a 2.4 60ft time, and that was just off stage one. the car loved it we call this car THE MUTANT! and there are plenty of other board members that will justify those numbers...hell one time i cranked it up and went for it, the damn car turned itself off when it hit second. all i did is wait till it came back on (about a sec or so) and she came back to life and blasted a killer time. i trust her, not me she knows how much medicine she can handle i am just along for the ass wooping if she could talk she would probably say the classic saying to me "JUST GET IN ,SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, AND HANG ON!!"
I don't think i need to say were i stand on this one. all i can say is that our motors can take quite a beating and you should give buick a little more credit. I think i am the only GN running a 7 nozzle dual stage NOS setup on a stock motor at well over 100,000 miles. i have pushed 23 pounds of boost with the spray on and the direct scan saying 50 knocks in just first gear and still blasted a 12.20 with a 2.4 60ft time, and that was just off stage one. the car loved it we call this car THE MUTANT! and there are plenty of other board members that will justify those numbers...hell one time i cranked it up and went for it, the damn car turned itself off when it hit second. all i did is wait till it came back on (about a sec or so) and she came back to life and blasted a killer time. i trust her, not me she knows how much medicine she can handle i am just along for the ass wooping
if she could talk she would probably say the classic saying to me "JUST GET IN ,SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, AND HANG ON!!"Similar threads
