dentmasters01
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ok, looking to put new upper and lower control arms on the car.....upper and lower adjustable....why adjustable? what does each do and do you need both ??
why adjustable control arms?
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Gary Wells
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I assume that you mean rear upper & lower control arms?
Adjustable uppers allow you to dial in the pinion snubber to the correct angle for drag racing, and will allow some adjustment of centering the rear axle under the frame.
Double (fully) adjustable will allow you to make those changes without removing either end of the upper control arms to rotate either frame or axle side.
They cost more & look kool to your mechanic.
Unless you are a drag racer or have pinion snubber angle problems non-adjustable uppers will work fine & save you some money.
Lower adjustable rear control arms are pretty much a drag race only item, and there is not much of a selection of those, which would imply to me that not too many peeps use them.
I bought BMR double (fully) adjustable rear uppers with the spherical bushings at the frame side when I replaced my stock set-up. Not cheap.
Global West lowers with spherical bushings at the front & Del-A-lum bushings at the rear on mine, not cheap either.
I am sure that Brian at GBodyParts.com, Paul Ferry at HRParts&Stuff or any one of TB.com's fine supporting vendors/suppliers have both non-adjustable or fully adjustable rear uppers & a matching set of non-adjustable lowers at very reasonable prices.
Help support the turbo Buick community and TB.com by supporting the suppliers, vendors and / or turbo Buick Specialty shops that are TB.com Sponsorship Team members.
HTH
Adjustable uppers allow you to dial in the pinion snubber to the correct angle for drag racing, and will allow some adjustment of centering the rear axle under the frame.
Double (fully) adjustable will allow you to make those changes without removing either end of the upper control arms to rotate either frame or axle side.
They cost more & look kool to your mechanic.
Unless you are a drag racer or have pinion snubber angle problems non-adjustable uppers will work fine & save you some money.
Lower adjustable rear control arms are pretty much a drag race only item, and there is not much of a selection of those, which would imply to me that not too many peeps use them.
I bought BMR double (fully) adjustable rear uppers with the spherical bushings at the frame side when I replaced my stock set-up. Not cheap.
Global West lowers with spherical bushings at the front & Del-A-lum bushings at the rear on mine, not cheap either.
I am sure that Brian at GBodyParts.com, Paul Ferry at HRParts&Stuff or any one of TB.com's fine supporting vendors/suppliers have both non-adjustable or fully adjustable rear uppers & a matching set of non-adjustable lowers at very reasonable prices.
Help support the turbo Buick community and TB.com by supporting the suppliers, vendors and / or turbo Buick Specialty shops that are TB.com Sponsorship Team members.
HTH
dentmasters01
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"Adjustable uppers allow you to dial in the pinion snubber to the correct angle for drag racing, and will allow some adjustment of centering the rear axle under the frame."
"Lower adjustable rear control arms are pretty much a drag race only item, and there is not much of a selection of those, which would imply to me that not too many peeps use them. "
So what does adjusting the lowers do? And what do the spherical bushings do different from the others?
sorry for all the questions but I have a gnx suspension right now and looking to go back to factory type set up. I have never educated myself on the the upper and lower control arm style set up or even why/how they function until now, so I'm kinda doin a "crunch" session
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adjustable uppers are for setting pinion angle
adjustble lowers for adjusting wheel base
adjustble lowers for adjusting wheel base
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
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If you are just getting ready to start modifications you might want to consider Paul Ferry @ HRParts&Stuff's super rear sway bar which I have heard works exceptionally well and comes complete with adjustable upper rear control arms, I believe. Do a search on this item, I have heard greats results from this rear sway bar set-up, both for drag racing & street use. Most peeps attest that they removed their front sway bar with this set-up. I run stock front sway bar with a 1" global West rear sway bar. i believe with very good results.
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I posted this while you were posting yours so I did not have a chance to read your post regarding currently having a GNX reqar suspension. If that is a true GNX or even a replica GNX suspension I would think twice about removing that as that adds some "Charm" to your car, and for what you are going to pay to exchange the two suspensions, I don't think that you will gain enough to make up for the cost of the swap. If you do replace the GNX with a standard set-up, even a high performance expensive one, I don' think that you will gain that much, maybe some improved cornering ability, as the GNX suspension seems to work best in a straight line. HTH
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I posted this while you were posting yours so I did not have a chance to read your post regarding currently having a GNX reqar suspension. If that is a true GNX or even a replica GNX suspension I would think twice about removing that as that adds some "Charm" to your car, and for what you are going to pay to exchange the two suspensions, I don't think that you will gain enough to make up for the cost of the swap. If you do replace the GNX with a standard set-up, even a high performance expensive one, I don' think that you will gain that much, maybe some improved cornering ability, as the GNX suspension seems to work best in a straight line. HTH
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
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I don't want to bogart or steal Dentmasters01's thread, maybe it's time to have a Donut Derelict's get together in the next few weeks. I will post up in the Southwestern Section this weekend. Hope all's well with family & car collection.
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
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dentmasters01
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Well I am seeing stock type suspensions putting down 1.50's and even 1.40's 60 foot times. My 60 foot is killing me. If I leave any harder than say 7 lbs of boost it hooks then spins. From what I'm seeing, the gnx suspension is great for the "moderate" racer, but I'm trying to put down some hp to the pavement. The suspension is loading the power to the ground but then seems to unload all that power after the initial jump. Its seem the force downward on the tires, and the upward force of the car gets to a point of the car "lifting" and unloading the tires. Kind of like a hop. How many 9 sec. cars are out there and run a gnx suspension and have great 60 ft times?? I should be in the 9's but my best 60 ft time I've had was a 1.70 launching at 12lbs and ran a 6.70 at 106 and 10.50 at 127. Launching that hard with any stock type set up would be high 1.40's. I'm getting frustraded because every trip to the track is moderate at best trying to figure out what will work off the line, but the guy beside me is laying down consistant 1.50's foot braking with stock set up.....
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
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dentmasters01:
Sounds like you really need to talk to Paul Ferry regarding his set-up.
Paul Ferry
HRParts&Stuff
and he is, I believe a supporting vendor of TB.com
Brian at GBodyParts.com also carries this set-up, or can get it, I believe. I think that if you go through the list of TB.com supporting vendors you can find several of them that either stock it or can get it.
Help support the turbo Buick community and TB.com by supporting the suppliers, vendors and / or turbo Buick Specialty shops that are TB.com Sponsorship Team members.
HTH
Look at it this way, your GNX suspension is worth some $$ too.
Sounds like you really need to talk to Paul Ferry regarding his set-up.
Paul Ferry
HRParts&Stuff
and he is, I believe a supporting vendor of TB.com
Brian at GBodyParts.com also carries this set-up, or can get it, I believe. I think that if you go through the list of TB.com supporting vendors you can find several of them that either stock it or can get it.
Help support the turbo Buick community and TB.com by supporting the suppliers, vendors and / or turbo Buick Specialty shops that are TB.com Sponsorship Team members.
HTH
Look at it this way, your GNX suspension is worth some $$ too.
J
JCotton
Guest
Derrick,
Unfortunately running the GNX suspension is not the best set-up for drag racing, it was not designed for 60ft times with 600 plus HP. The best 60ft I know of was John Sullivan with his real GNX in TSM trim. He did run 9's with it, but no doubt never achieved the potential of the power he was making. We had spoken several times about making the neccesary changes to accomplish his potential, unfortunately for John, the GNX will not be seeing the 1320 again.
Now to explain what has been stated here up to this point, I might start by saying your 1.50 60ft times are the least of your potential with a good stock style suspension. More like 1.30 and 40.s are closer to what you can expect. We like to use several different set-ups depending on the power and goals of our customers. For the serious racers, we like the more solid control arms, using the double adjustable control arms just gives us more adjustability we otherwise would not have. Double adjustable over single or non adjustable arms allows for making adjustments easier since you can lengthen or shorten the arms without removing them from the mounting point. Lengthening or shortening your uppers is the maiin means of adjusting your pinion angle, adjusting the lowers will affect your wheelbase slightly, but also can be used in achieving your ultimate pinion angle, thus, why we like double adjustable uppers and lowers.
The next area of importance is using a good sway bar, we generally like 2 different types, one being the H&R lower sway bar, works great and easy to install for most anyone. The other being the Wolfe Racecraft weld in upper sway bar. Requires a welder and a bit more knowledge and experience to install. They both work great and eliminate the use of air bags and stock style sway bars, which also can work very well, not to mention eliminating the body twisting we have been known to have using the stock type sway bar. I and many others have used the stock sway bar style set up in the past and even now, but the serious racers that wants the safest and most consistent setup, we recommend the before mentioned bars.
Now do we need to talk about shocks ............ I'm done for now, gots to do some yard work, you know the ones I've neglected all summer.....
One more thing, being a supporting vendor of TB..... we have a little experience putting suspension packages together to meet our customers needs... I'm always available for consultation to achieve your goals...
Unfortunately running the GNX suspension is not the best set-up for drag racing, it was not designed for 60ft times with 600 plus HP. The best 60ft I know of was John Sullivan with his real GNX in TSM trim. He did run 9's with it, but no doubt never achieved the potential of the power he was making. We had spoken several times about making the neccesary changes to accomplish his potential, unfortunately for John, the GNX will not be seeing the 1320 again.
Now to explain what has been stated here up to this point, I might start by saying your 1.50 60ft times are the least of your potential with a good stock style suspension. More like 1.30 and 40.s are closer to what you can expect. We like to use several different set-ups depending on the power and goals of our customers. For the serious racers, we like the more solid control arms, using the double adjustable control arms just gives us more adjustability we otherwise would not have. Double adjustable over single or non adjustable arms allows for making adjustments easier since you can lengthen or shorten the arms without removing them from the mounting point. Lengthening or shortening your uppers is the maiin means of adjusting your pinion angle, adjusting the lowers will affect your wheelbase slightly, but also can be used in achieving your ultimate pinion angle, thus, why we like double adjustable uppers and lowers.
The next area of importance is using a good sway bar, we generally like 2 different types, one being the H&R lower sway bar, works great and easy to install for most anyone. The other being the Wolfe Racecraft weld in upper sway bar. Requires a welder and a bit more knowledge and experience to install. They both work great and eliminate the use of air bags and stock style sway bars, which also can work very well, not to mention eliminating the body twisting we have been known to have using the stock type sway bar. I and many others have used the stock sway bar style set up in the past and even now, but the serious racers that wants the safest and most consistent setup, we recommend the before mentioned bars.
Now do we need to talk about shocks ............ I'm done for now, gots to do some yard work, you know the ones I've neglected all summer.....
One more thing, being a supporting vendor of TB..... we have a little experience putting suspension packages together to meet our customers needs... I'm always available for consultation to achieve your goals...
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Hey Jack ever heard of Ronnie Santhuff? He lives right down the street from me... He has given me a few lessons on chassis and shocks
Drag Racing Shocks & Struts - Santhuff Engineering
Drag Racing Shocks & Struts - Santhuff Engineering
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
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Jack:
Many thanks for the input.
Many thanks for the input.
dentmasters01
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thanks for the info jack. as far as shock...I've got bilsteins on the car now?? So the upper swaybar replaces the need for the air bags??
Also with adjustable arms, you can dial in (or out) preload to get the car to launch straight.
It sounds like you are getting over 100% antisquat. This will causing the rear end to rise. With high HP cars, this will plant the tires very hard initially and then they will unload a few feet out.
From what I understand the GNX suspension is single ladder bar type setup, and I dont know if anyone has come up with a way to make this type of setup adjustable.
With the stock GN 4 link type setup, there are modifications that can be made to alter the geometry that will get you better 60' times.
You are probabily thinking when you read my sig, what the heck do I know, I dont even own a GN... Thing is, I'm running an hybrid, I have been "tracton impaired" for years, and finally figured out how to make some suspension mods. (ie. Fabricated some adjustable 4 link control arms, and made some adjustable mount points) I plotted my geometry out on a 4 link calculator, made some changes, and there is a day and night difference on how the car launches and home much more traction I have gained. I wish I could give you some 60" times, but I just completed the mods, and it is too late in the season to get it to the track. I cant wait for spring.
Not meaning to hijack your thread dentmasters01, but I thought this would be a good place to post these links:
http://mysite.verizon.net/triaged/files/4BarLinkV3.0.zip
InductionMotorsports.com
The first one is a downloadable calculator, and the second, is a online one. (Look under calculators)
Cheers,
Paul
It sounds like you are getting over 100% antisquat. This will causing the rear end to rise. With high HP cars, this will plant the tires very hard initially and then they will unload a few feet out.
From what I understand the GNX suspension is single ladder bar type setup, and I dont know if anyone has come up with a way to make this type of setup adjustable.
With the stock GN 4 link type setup, there are modifications that can be made to alter the geometry that will get you better 60' times.
You are probabily thinking when you read my sig, what the heck do I know, I dont even own a GN... Thing is, I'm running an hybrid, I have been "tracton impaired" for years, and finally figured out how to make some suspension mods. (ie. Fabricated some adjustable 4 link control arms, and made some adjustable mount points) I plotted my geometry out on a 4 link calculator, made some changes, and there is a day and night difference on how the car launches and home much more traction I have gained. I wish I could give you some 60" times, but I just completed the mods, and it is too late in the season to get it to the track. I cant wait for spring.
Not meaning to hijack your thread dentmasters01, but I thought this would be a good place to post these links:
http://mysite.verizon.net/triaged/files/4BarLinkV3.0.zip
InductionMotorsports.com
The first one is a downloadable calculator, and the second, is a online one. (Look under calculators)
Cheers,
Paul
