will it hold up for a while?

[turbo3.8monza]

Here is the situation my dad wants his 98 Regal GS faster but doesn't like spending alot of cash at one time. The current modifactions are a 3.4" pulley, fenderwell intake, and colder plugs (autolite can't remember the number). it still has a stock tune on the computer and stock temp thermostat (I know not good). Well he just bought a set of headers un-equal length 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" primaries and he is going to run it with no cat (O2 simulator) and stock cat back (he says "its a Buick it should kick your ass silently). I'm really concerned that adding headers is way to much for the stock tune to handle and was wondering if he could still drive it and be ok if he is light on the throttle and if he did get on it how quickly it would gernade, I want to say he has 130K miles on it.
thanks for any help

 

[murphinator]

one thing is for sure a 3.4 with stock manifolds will chip a piston eventually

I would install the headers and get a scanner and scan for kr.

the stock tune should be safe ( rich) at wot so I am not as concerned about adding the headers as i would be about not adding them.

his current mods are all mods that cram more air in the engine while he has none to let more out ! this will cause it to stack boost creating a lot of heat which adds to detonation.

if you have no plans to buy a tuner to tune the car ( hp tuners) then you could get an off the shelf pcm for it like a zzp 1.0 which will add some fueling , remove the top speed limiter (108) raise shift points ,allow downshifts to 1st gear to 40 mph ,remove some torque management ,etc..

a 3.4/headers/pcm 1.0 should be capable of cracking 13's at about 101-102 in good weather with reasonable traction

 

[turbo3.8monza]

thanks for the help
I have him talked into getting a tuned ecm from either zzp or the W body store, its just he is kind of a tight ass about money. Hopefully it will be next months little splurge.
He has run the 3.4" pulley for a few years now but with the stock restrictive 98 air box with no problems, I have a buddy that is a GM tech and he has all the fancy scanners and stuff, so far nothing bad had happened I have it checked every now and then to be on the safe side.
The hp tuners, how easy are they to use? I mean how easy is it to totally screw up the maps and everything? I'm not that experienced with tuning (electronic) fuel injection. Most of late model fuelie builds all have been tuned by performance shops (I wish I had the set up and knowledge to do it myself just cant afford to learn by trail and error)

 

[murphinator]

how hard hp tuners is to use would depend on ones understanding of efi engine controls and how they work , basic computer skill level , and how far off from stock the combo is you are trying to tune.

a nice feature is you can set the view to beginner , normal (?) and advanced

so set to beginner only the most common things you would change would be available to you to keep the confusion level low

there is also a forum for support

if you want to get real good at it it will be a time vacuum though there is always more to learn

 

[turbo3.8monza]

It does sound that bad maybe I'll check out my buddy with a Colbalt SS next time he does a tune on his car which about twice a month, he has learned by trail and error ALOT! 3 motors and 4 blowers later he can tune those ecotec motors some kind of nasty, I believe he's make alittle over 400 to the ground lots of mods of course (I wish I had his income)

 

[murphinator]

It does sound that bad maybe I'll check out my buddy with a Colbalt SS next time he does a tune on his car which about twice a month, he has learned by trail and error ALOT! 3 motors and 4 blowers later he can tune those ecotec motors some kind of nasty, I believe he's make alittle over 400 to the ground lots of mods of course (I wish I had his income)

if he has blown up that many motors due to tuning he must not have been using a wideband to maintain a safe afr ( 11.3- 11.7 for SC )

 

[turbo3.8monza]

well has hasn't blown any up in a while that was all in the begining when he was learning about the ecotec and cars in general and pushing beyond the limits of what a few parts could handle. I think he said at one time his intake air temp was 400 degrees after the intercooler because he was spining the blower way to fast, he fixed that by using a M90 instead if the M62. I'll learn what I can from his mistakes, not every thing he does will apply to the buick motor but I can get the jist of it

 

[turbo3.8monza]

ok I talked to my friend with the HP tuner and he is willing to due the tune on the car but wants some more info about tuning these cars like what people with the same setup have done with there cars, again the set is as follows
3.4" pulley
4" fender well intake
headers with 1 5/8" primaries
stock cat-back exhaust
autolite 104 plugs
stock injectors
stock throttle body and MAS
160*-180* thermostat (what ever is recomended)

 

[murphinator]

ok I talked to my friend with the HP tuner and he is willing to due the tune on the car but wants some more info about tuning these cars like what people with the same setup have done with there cars, again the set is as follows
3.4" pulley
4" fender well intake
headers with 1 5/8" primaries
stock cat-back exhaust
autolite 104 plugs
stock injectors
stock throttle body and MAS
160*-180* thermostat (what ever is recomended)

there are many ways to do it and i am no expert but these are some of the things i do

remove the speed limiter

up the shift rpm's and speeds slightly ( speed & rpm both have to be met for shifts to occur so step them up together conservatively and always "save as" so you still have the last tune to fall back on if there is now an issue)

up the trans pressures slightly ( I highlight the table and multiply by 1.1 to increase 10% at a time ,drive it , multiply by 1.1 again until firmness is good but not harsh)

reduce shift times (I again highlight the table and multiply by .90 to reduce the time it takes to shift by 10%)

change downshift speeds especially for the 2nd to 1st downshift

remove all torque management in both engine and transmission tabs ( probably 10-12 different tables that deal with torque management total) this is harder on the drivetrain but my daily driver with 200k has had no torque management for about 40k and lots of track passes - this is a big boy choice if it breaks its part of performance

if scans are showing KR present use the histogram set to "+" for the highest amount occurring (knock retard) and copy with labels/paste special subtract ( apply to the high octane timing table) to remove the kr until after AFR is dialed in with a wideband if you are able to go this far if not at least you arent knocking , you can try adding fuel in the regions with kr to not lose the timing from the cooling properties of the extra fueling but to do it properly you really need to wideband tune to know that the wot afr's are correct before optimizing timing

wot afr's on sc 3800's should be within +- .2 of 11.5

that should get him started

 

[turbo3.8monza]

cool thanks I'll show the guy all that stuff, and good news I found my neighbor has a wideband O2 sensor set up that he is not using and he is going to let me use it, sweet!

 

[turbo3.8monza]

Well I put the headers in this weekend, and judas priest its a pain in the ass. The car took alittle while to realized that it can breathe again, but now it behaves like it should. It is a huge difference now to get it tuned