won't boost while staging

[tonytheplumber]

I'm still a turbo Buick newbie, so be kind. I was at the track yesterday for the 1st time with my 86 GN which I bought in the spring of this year from a member here. I never stood on it long enough on the street to get it to build any boost pressure with the car stationary, but then again I thought maybe my converter was too tight. Anyway, I cannot get anything above 3-4 psi of boost while standing on the brake and gas while staging, period. After reading many posts on here today I feel like I may have an issue, somewhere. The car has a Precision 6131E, 60# injectors, Turbo Tweak chip, fuel pump w/hot wire, adjustable regulator, 3" down pipe. My converter is "supposed to" be around a 2600 stall, and when foot braking it I can get around 2800 out of it. Under full acceleration I get 14psi of boost as it is set now, and I have never changes the wastegate adjustment. My fuel pressure at idle is 38 lbs. All I was really looking for when I went to the track yesterday was a baseline so when/if I make any changes/mods over the winter, I will know if I did any good. At this point, with the horrible times I turned, there is a LOT of room for improvement. Anybody have any ideas on where to look for problems?? The way it was yesterday I couldn't even squeeze anything better than a mid to high 14 second pass out of it. I was about dead even with my brother in laws bone stock 2010 Lancer. Not Good!!

 

[GullsGN]

If you mean that you could only get 3 or 4 lbs of boost at the line before you started rolling through, that is normal. Some go with s10 rear brakes or two front shoes to hold the rear brakes, or best would be a transbrake. Stock brakes just don't hold well. I wouldn't think you would want to leave with much more boost on street tires anyway. They will just go up in smoke.

 

[we4Mateo]

Your converter is too tight for that turbo. I have a stock converter with a smaller turbo but can only build 5psi max at the line. 14 lbs isn't really utilizing a turbo as big as yours either. Put a stock turbo on or even a 44/49 on it and it'll build boost @ the line fine if your converter is a 2600 stall. You'll push yourself through the beams if you want.

 

[tonytheplumber]

Hold on, guys. The car isn't pushing through the beams. I could sit there and make a sandwich with my foot firmly on the brake and the gas pedal to the floor. It won't push through the beams, nor will it build boost progressively. Now, on another note, I had a phone conversation this afternoon with Ed, user name 87NAT, who schooled my about that TT chip and how it is tunable. I did a small waste gate adjustment and went for a ride. Quite a difference, but with some traces of knock. Now I need to download the TT pdf that explains how to "tune" Eric's chips and I should be on my way to figuring more things out with the whole "turbo Buick learning curve". I failed to mention that my GN does have a Scanmaster, so hopefully I won't melt anything during my learning curve. After my conversation with Ed, I do believe I will be looking into a alky kit for my winter project.

 

[Nick Micale]

Your converter is too tight for that turbo........

The converter is so tight you cannot build enough boost with that large of a turbo to even get to a HP level to break the tires loose.

Tune the chip all you want, will not help unless you have a converter about 35-3600 stall. Been down this road many times with customers, most recently within the week.

 

[Onalky87]

Alky kit, 23-25psi and tuned will be way more then enough to beat Ne ricer lancer

 

[tonytheplumber]

The converter is so tight you cannot build enough boost with that large of a turbo to even get to a HP level to break the tires loose.

Tune the chip all you want, will not help unless you have a converter about 35-3600 stall. Been down this road many times with customers, most recently within the week.

With only a very small wastegate adjustment last night I was able to build boost very quickly while "staging" the car. When I launched the car last night after my adjustment I had to be carefull how much throttle I gave it before I got off the brakes cause it just started to burn the tires very easily. Judging by my very very short test session last night, and by multiple other posts I've read, I think this converter will be ok for me, mabey not the absolute best, but will be fine. The car sees 99% street use, so I don't need the optimal track set up, but a happy meduim will be fine.

I was on TT"s site last night and noticed they have a forum, so I registered and started a thread asking about tuning and gave Eric some info on the car. He responded last night asking for the ID from the chip so he can help me tune it, and I will do that today. I also downloaded and printed the pdf for the chip tuning, and the pdf that explains Scanmaster readings. Seems like he offers great support, even for a newb like me.:redface:

 

[tonytheplumber]

Alky kit, 23-25psi and tuned will be way more then enough to beat Ne ricer lancer

Yea, after reading quite a few threads yesterday it seems that alky is the way to go. I will be able to hand his a$$ to him just after some tuning, but with an alky kit, and the proper chip/tuning to match...:biggrin:

 

[berserker6]

post your time slip from the track. i would bet a buck that someone with experience could have gotten you a 13 sec. pass the night you were at the track. that is not a knock on you. its just part of the learning curve. ie: doing a long burnout heats up the rear shoes making them less able to hold boost at the line. and you didnt mention what tires and presure you were running?

 

[tonytheplumber]

post your time slip from the track. i would bet a buck that someone with experience could have gotten you a 13 sec. pass the night you were at the track. that is not a knock on you. its just part of the learning curve. ie: doing a long burnout heats up the rear shoes making them less able to hold boost at the line. and you didnt mention what tires and presure you were running?

No burn out, period. Drove around the bleach box, knew I wouldn't need it. The track was waaay sticky, and with my car leaving like a school bus there was no fear of any tire spin. I tried to spool it while I was only pre staged and then bump it into full stage after it had built boost, but it never did build boost. If I would have made a waste gate adjustment that day at the track, it would have been a different story. So, for what it's worth: with a .642 reaction, 60'- 2.40, 330'- 6.48, 1/8 e.t.-9.67, 1/8 mph-75.5, 1000'- 12.57, 1/4- 14.96@95.12.

 

[Onalky87]

.642 reaction, 60'- 2.40, 330'- 6.48, 1/8 e.t.-9.67, 1/8 mph-75.5, 1000'- 12.57, 1/4- 14.96@95.12.

U need a tune. And to get that 60' down. That alone will get u 13s DR,Alky,24psi,tune=11s

 

[streetknight]

Won't hurt to check for exhaust leaks also, mine had a cracked driver side header causing spool up issues...it's a common problem and worth checking out.

Sent from my DROID2

 

[tonytheplumber]

U need a tune. And to get that 60' down. That alone will get u 13s DR,Alky,24psi,tune=11s

I'm all over it

 

[tonytheplumber]

Won't hurt to check for exhaust leaks also, mine had a cracked driver side header causing spool up issues...it's a common problem and worth checking out.

Sent from my DROID2

Looks like someone, sometime has done some welding on that drivers side header where the front 2, and rear tubes "Y" together. I noticed that some time back, (probably while swapping the trans) and just now double checked to confirm. Thank you, though!!

 

[87NAT]

Looks like someone, sometime has done some welding on that drivers side header where the front 2, and rear tubes "Y" together. I noticed that some time back, (probably while swapping the trans) and just now double checked to confirm. Thank you, though!!

They all crack right there.

Great talking to you yesterday. You are on the right track for some high 11's/low 12's with your combo. Holler if ya need.

Ed

 

[Timbuick]

Tony, what brakes do you have? Powermaster or vac? If the latter, you'll have problems building boost on the line as it overpwers the brakes. That's why my first pass was only 14.2 @101mph:redface:

 

[tonytheplumber]

They all crack right there.

Great talking to you yesterday. You are on the right track for some high 11's/low 12's with your combo. Holler if ya need.

Ed

Thanks a bunch, Ed. You really fed me some key information yesterday and I really appreciate you putting yourself out there like that. Very cool. Oh, and I'm sure you may be hearing from me again soon!!

 

[tonytheplumber]

Tony, what brakes do you have? Powermaster or vac? If the latter, you'll have problems building boost on the line as it overpwers the brakes. That's why my first pass was only 14.2 @101mph:redface:

Still on the Powermaster. And actually, the rear brakes feel to be quite a bit out of adjustment, so if I bring the adjustment up, and hope my powermaster doesn't crap out any time soon I should be good. It's a lot different situation now, even with only a small wastegate adjustment. It builds boost now, with no problem. But, as of my very short test run last night I had a little KR to deal with. I'll get that sorted out with fuel and/or timing and be on my way. Eric at TT seems to be a very interactive guy so I think I'll do just fine.