WOW! Cold Air Intake

[Yankee John]

When I got my Grand National, It already had a cold air intake on it with a K&N filter and stock MAF. I later changed to an LT-1 MAF. This set-up still put the K&N airfilter partially behind my radiator. Of course, Some of the radiator heat was transfered to the intake and the ATS reading on my Scanmaster was reading 20 degrees higher than ambient air temp/outside temp.

Today, I put a 6" spacer between the MAF and the filter, thus putting the filter directly in front of the opening of the core support behind the driver's side headlights.

What a difference in temperature readings this made on my Scanmaster! At highway speed, The ATS temp reading is within 3-5 degrees of outside temperature. At in-town speeds (30 mph+), the Scanmaster reads within 6-8 degrees of outside temp.

This has got to help performance and efficiency! Does anybody know exactly how much intake air temperature influences performance and power?

You will also see in my pics that I had to relocate my Translator, Since the relocated filter took the spot were I had it mounted- I simply zip-tied it to my air filter!

Thought you would like to know!
John

 

[daves87gn]

from what i understand 10* is equal to 1hp, and every little bit counts!!! i would recommend moving Translator off filter dont know how vibration from engine might affect it, or the weight affect filter or maf.

 

[Yankee John]

Good idea about moving the Translator- I didn't think about the vibration.

Thanks for your input!

John

from what i understand 10* is equal to 1hp, and every little bit counts!!! i would recommend moving Translator off filter dont know how vibration from engine might affect it, or the weight affect filter or maf.

 

[novaderrik]

plus, the translator is blocking airflow into the filter.
if you really want to get the intak air temps down, build a box around the filter that seals to the opening in the rad support like they do on all the cold air kits for late model pickups.

 

[turbodave231]

Take a look at the TinMan cold air kit and the Big Mouth kit. Both relocate the entire filter out of the engine compartment.

There is alot of radiated heat in the engine compartment that still affects your inlet air temp. If you want to drop the inlet temps even lower, get one of these kits. Cooler air inlet temps allow more ignition timing and leaner A/F mixtures without detonation.

The Tinman kit was flow bench tested. I don't know about the others. I've never heard anything but good comments about the Tinman kits.

Dave

 

[Dabigguy]

I heard a figure of for every 10 degree temperature drop you get 4% more horsepower.

 

[daves87gn]

I heard a figure of for every 10 degree temperature drop you get 4% more horsepower.

well its in between there somewere, but if your right on a 500HP motor an 10* drop would equal 20HP I think that my be a strech for 10*

 

[Dabigguy]

I think you were correct dave, I was going by my memory and this old mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. I did a little research and founf a couple sources that stated 1% per 10 degree drop.

 

[Dabigguy]

There was a test on a Mease intercooler and they got a 1.75% increase per 10 degree drop. Some of that increase may have come from a more efficient intercooler design. They went from 361.8 hp to 387.1 with a temp. drop from 150 to 102.

Mease Performance's Intercooler - Test - GM High-Tech Performance

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I don't want to mess anyone's sales up, but moving your filter, from where it's currently at, to outside the engine bay, doesn't really make that much difference. Really.
True, you may experience a TAD bit lower temps, but now it's going thru not only more piping, but yet another bend as well. Not really worth the effort.
In my personal car, my afe air filter is located exactly where yours is, and there is like a 3 degree drop in air temp, from ambient to intake... not worth the effort in my car. And other cars that live in cold states. Enough cool air is getting rammed up in there by itself..

 

[Just a Six??]

Or just take a dryer vent hose with cold air from outside to blow at it so its a nice fresh stream of outside air without being Ram Air in a cannister which is not the best idea.

 

[ttypewe4jim]

I don't want to mess anyone's sales up, but moving your filter, from where it's currently at, to outside the engine bay, doesn't really make that much difference. Really.
True, you may experience a TAD bit lower temps, but now it's going thru not only more piping, but yet another bend as well. Not really worth the effort.
In my personal car, my afe air filter is located exactly where yours is, and there is like a 3 degree drop in air temp, from ambient to intake... not worth the effort in my car. And other cars that live in cold states. Enough cool air is getting rammed up in there by itself..

Got some 1/4 mile passes to back that statement up? I only ask because the cold air intakes that move the filter down bellow ARE proven to work... it's not a huge gain but they do show some gains...

 

[Just a Six??]

Got some 1/4 mile passes to back that statement up? I only ask because the cold air intakes that move the filter down bellow ARE proven to work... it's not a huge gain but they do show some gains...

Ask Grumpy about it. He has done it both ways & its under his hood.

 

[Grumpy]

Ask Grumpy about it. He has done it both ways & its under his hood.

Every Buick NEEDS a ram air ok I said it .. everyone should be happy now :biggrin:

OH for guys that DO run the air cleaner down low ... They pick up a lot of road crap.. Watch em !!

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Got some 1/4 mile passes to back that statement up? I only ask because the cold air intakes that move the filter down bellow ARE proven to work... it's not a huge gain but they do show some gains...

Ask Grumpy about it. He has done it both ways & its under his hood.

_____________________________

 

[Bruce Urie]

Question for Grumpy

Every Buick NEEDS a ram air ok I said it .. everyone should be happy now :biggrin:

OH for guys that DO run the air cleaner down low ... They pick up a lot of road crap.. Watch em !!

Grumpy, I have the Kenne-Bell ram air/intercooler air damn system on my '87. I have the canister with the K&N air filter in it. After talking with a very knowledgeable member here on the forum about the same set-up he has on his, he said that he has his filter open behind the headlight area, but with the scoop/hose going up to the filter to blow cold air on it. He said that it gives faster times without the closed canister. (according to a friend of his that worked for Kenne-Bell who ran tests this way) What is your take since you are also familiar with this set up? Should I take the filter out of the canister and run the lower scoop hose up to it, or cut the bottom of the canister out, then run the lower scoop hose to it? I'm just searching for opinions from those who are familiar with this set up. I've constantly read that this ram air system gives slower times because of the closed canister. And have been told that the canister is really a "bling" factor under the hood. Give me your thoughts on this, Grumpy, as you, and my other buddy here, are well versed on this set-up.
And thank you.

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[daves87gn]

I think you were correct dave, I was going by my memory and this old mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. I did a little research and founf a couple sources that stated 1% per 10 degree drop.

that happens, i cant remember my name sometimes but some of the least important thing i can forget

 

[bison]

When I got my Grand National, It already had a cold air intake on it with a K&N filter and stock MAF. I later changed to an LT-1 MAF. This set-up still put the K&N airfilter partially behind my radiator. Of course, Some of the radiator heat was transfered to the intake and the ATS reading on my Scanmaster was reading 20 degrees higher than ambient air temp/outside temp.

Today, I put a 6" spacer between the MAF and the filter, thus putting the filter directly in front of the opening of the core support behind the driver's side headlights.

What a difference in temperature readings this made on my Scanmaster! At highway speed, The ATS temp reading is within 3-5 degrees of outside temperature. At in-town speeds (30 mph+), the Scanmaster reads within 6-8 degrees of outside temp.

This has got to help performance and efficiency! Does anybody know exactly how much intake air temperature influences performance and power?

You will also see in my pics that I had to relocate my Translator, Since the relocated filter took the spot were I had it mounted- I simply zip-tied it to my air filter!

Thought you would like to know!
John

Every bit of effort is worth it but the gain is very small. Reducing pressure drop is worth the most. Which means once you get rid of the stock air cleaner assembly in favor of an open element you gain most of what is to be had even with the hot under hood air going in it. Keep in mind the stock assembly will warrant the same air inlet temp but is causing a major pressure drop on even the slightly above stock setup. Id guess its worth about 2 hp grabbing the cooler air in your instance. If you were to drop the charge air temp 10* you would gain about 1%. This is why if you tune with alky you have an advantage if you have a lousy intercooler since the alky will pull a lot of heat out of the charge air. 40* drop of charge air temp is not uncommon. Others have reported nearly the same charge air temp with an underhood and alky as an ambient air/alky combo. Those of course were highly modded cars that had actual data logging of the sensors not someones wet dream.

 

[bison]

There was a test on a Mease intercooler and they got a 1.75% increase per 10 degree drop. Some of that increase may have come from a more efficient intercooler design. They went from 361.8 hp to 387.1 with a temp. drop from 150 to 102.

Mease Performance's Intercooler - Test - GM High-Tech Performance

Yes. Thats because they reduced pressure drop across the core as well as reducing the charge air temp. Much slower compressor speed to make the same pressure ratio = way more efficiency.