Y R cooler running regals not good?

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Oh yea one more thing..whats all this talk about how not only is there more engine wear when you switch to a high efficiency rad with 160 t stat, but, sometimes, some sensors dont even turn on till like 170 or so, and that could mess your car up. I still dont understand how hotter is better. Heat soak is heat soak, and a hot block, heats it combustion chambers/intake charge up soo bad it makes the car noticably slower. . My gn specifically.... is WAY slower at the end of the night than right when i get onto the strip... so do the newer regals really have sensors that dont work till a certain operating temperature? If so, can a new chip or a new ecm fix all this?

 

[dmanlyr]

What you are confusing is maximum engine life verses maximum hp.

While having a cooler engine will reduce heat soak (and cool fuel along with air is more dense) that only applies to maximum horsepower generation potential, not maximum engine life.

It is very correct that the engine's ECU is looking for a higher standard operating temp that that provided by a 160 degree thermostat. Not only wil the ECU richen up the mixture, but then this rich mixture may not combust properly in normal street driving, with the extra fuel washing the fine oil off of the cylinder walls and diluting the lubricating oil. (and this also applies to carb'd engines, temp needs to be maintained to properly atomize and burn ALL of the fuel.)

There are additional concerns / benifits to be considered on the two subjects, I have attempted to keep this short.

And without going into a deep pit here, this is why I constantly question peoples reported horsepower generation on a "street trim" engine.

So at the strip you are looking for something else than you are looking for on a street ride / daily driver.

David

 

[DoubleD]

I believe what you were hearing about is the knock sensors not activating until 162* on the 2000 Regal's. I would definately suggest not going with the 160* and going with a 180*. (You also get a SES light i believe when you use a 160.) I have one in mine, and it helps keep the knock in the engine down a little bit and helps the accessories like the supercharger cooler. Sure it may decrease engine life, but knock does that even more so. Everything that dmanlyr is very true. So its really up to you, but the 180 degree is a good choice in my book. The pretuned PCM's that you can buy on the market can adjust for a 180 degree thermo, and also adjust fan temperatures. Im sure if some fueling issues came up you could get them all tuned out. Just like the previous reply says its all in what you are looking for out of the car.

-DD

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

what dman said makes total sense. never took in consideration the bad sides of a tool cool engine.... but, if i got a reflashed eprom, that adjusted for a 160 thermostat, and not richen up the af ratio, would that make everything ok? would my combustion still be as complete? if not, then why do all the other gn's and such run such a cool car, and get away with it?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

anyone around? experts? why does everyone else run a 160 and run just fine? what about the reflashed pcms? dont they adjust for it?

 

[fubar2.5]

anyone around? experts? why does everyone else run a 160 and run just fine? what about the reflashed pcms? dont they adjust for it?

You got a good answer What is it you are trying to say.I guess the short answer is no.The people who are doing it are looking for HP not longevity.

 

[kshef]

why does everyone else run a 160 and run just fine? what about the reflashed pcms? dont they adjust for it?

First off, 3800 PCMs are much more complex than GN's...so I think thats where most of this comes from.
There are many tables that are dependant on engine coolant temperature.
In theory the car is more effiecient for everyday driving with higher coolant temps...plus the "blue hairs" need scorching hot heaters


The only problem you would run into with a 160 thermostat is a table that disables the knock sensors when the ECT is below 158*
And more than likely the PCM will set a code for engine warm up time
Those are the only issues that I see...

So delete the DTC code, and lower the coolant temp disable value and you are good to go:smile:

 

[kshef]

Not only wil the ECU richen up the mixture, but then this rich mixture may not combust properly in normal street driving, with the extra fuel washing the fine oil off of the cylinder walls and diluting the lubricating oil.

commanded A/F ratio in both open and closed loop are the same at 158* and 176*

 

[kshef]

double post

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

tell me this then. on the 'the combustion may not be too reliable' deal. how do our cars do it then? i keep running across this '160 is too cold' deal. guys, 160 is plenty hot for ANY internal combustion engine to make happen what its gotta make happen. secondly, the knock sensor at 162 thingy. a 160 t-stat doesnt mean that the actual temp of the coolant is going to be 160 now. no car runs that cool in reality. and lastly, how does the 'warm up' get delayed, if its sitting in your driveway? no air is flowing across your radiator whether a 160 or a 195 is sitting in your t-stat housing.. . its just that a 160 will open quicker, allowing the coolant to move thru the rad at this point, which by the way isnt cooling anything yet, cuz youre sitting still. you know, thats why most people overheat in traffic? cuz theyre sitting still? anyhow, a 160 t-stat doesnt cool your car, the rad does. and USUALLY, not always, but usually, your coolant temps will run about 15 degrees hotter than your t-stat rating. so in reality, if you run a stock rad, but a 160 t-stat, im guessing youre going to cruise at about 175, instead of a 180 putting your temps at cruising, at around 195.
Im still confused. Please help. I want to understand these engines the best i can, so i know whats up when the time comes. And I know you guys can help lol. Fill me in.

 

[kshef]

secondly, the knock sensor at 162 thingy. a 160 t-stat doesnt mean that the actual temp of the coolant is going to be 160 now. no car runs that cool in reality.

its actually 158* on 99-up...i believe some of the pre 99's were set at 104*

on really cold days you could see coolant temps drop below 160....you just need to be aware your PCM won't be able to protect you

and lastly, how does the 'warm up' get delayed, if its sitting in your driveway?

warm up isn't delayed....

there is a preset time the car must reach X* coolant temperature, if it doesnt then a DTC is set because the PCM believes the car is not warming up properly

and USUALLY, not always, but usually, your coolant temps will run about 15 degrees hotter than your t-stat rating. so in reality, if you run a stock rad, but a 160 t-stat, im guessing youre going to cruise at about 175, instead of a 180 putting your temps at cruising, at around 195.

fan turn on point has alot to do with...

for example, my stock fan1 turn on is 214*....so even with a 180 thermostat my idle coolant temps go over 200*

i adjust my fan turn ons and now i never go over 187* regardless the situation

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

one more thing, how is a cooler running car not going to last as long?