Alky Vs Racegas!!!

[Sweet6]

I used to run race gas. I still would if the car was not 99% street driven. Now that 110 near me is $6.00/gal, the alky kit was a no brainer. I ran 25lbs of boost my first pass and no knock. It was easy to install. The way I look at it is that you still have to pay attention to your tune/gauges either on race gas or alky. A fuel pump can take a dump like an alky pump can.

If I had a track only car, I would run race gas no problem. But it gets expensive filling up your tank with $6/gal gas to cruise around on the street. You can't go wrong with either one IMO. Do whatever fits your needs.

 

[white88montess]

^^nice simple post.....and to the POINT TOO!.....alky will be my choice(as if i had another choice) but it seems as though there are more people using alchly instead of race gas.....hmmmmm

 

[Underboost]

I run Alky & 91pump on the street. 24psi

I run C-16 at the track 28psi with a mist of Alky for cooling.

 

[Boost231]

i think thats the way to do it. run c16 at the track with a mist of alky for cooling. then turn the boost down and run alky and 91 on the street.

 

[SloGN]

well for me i just use my alky kit to clean the throttle body and intake. When i had the vr4 I/C on the car with the stock ecm with a translator pkus adn a extender extreme i run the alky. What i hated was the fast the car would rattle as the boost would come up. the boost rise was faster than the alky could compensate. I had my turn on point @ 5 psi with the pump speed setting around 6.. That my reason for not likeing the alky. when this would happen the scanmaster-directscan would show no knock during this time. This was not false knock unlike many people think if really is.

So when i swaped out the stock ecm for the FAST system. I simply don't need to run the alky anymore. i can safely run 18 psi on true pump gas.

I have since installed a RJC MEGACOOLER and i have not tried to turn up the boost any more to see if it could possiably stand more.

I normally run 15 psi of boost in the street anyhow. anything more than 15-16 psi the car becomes a handful @ spinning the tires. I don't street race so why turn up the boost and make more power so i can spin the tires harder.


i do believe that i could get a tad bit more boost on 93 if i were to lower the timing down a tad bit more. I'm currently running 19 egrees of timing @ 15-16 psi of boost.

So when i got to the track in put in the race gas and don't have to worry about tring to tune in another variable.

BTW mixing of the 2 fuel do mess with the o2 reading also so guys beware don't try to run lean when using the alky/pump gas mix. alky has a diffrent stoich than racegas/pump gas. thats why the guys with the o2 correction turned on in the fast and then start ading alky it makes the corection #'s go up because of the diffrent stoich of the fuels.


i have some info here @ home on the stoich of diffrent fuels i will try and find them and post them up.


Flame suit on................

 

[Jerryl]

........What i hated was the fast the car would rattle as the boost would come up. the boost rise was faster than the alky could compensate. I had my turn on point @ 5 psi with the pump speed setting around 6.. That my reason for not likeing the alky. when this would happen the scanmaster-directscan would show no knock during this time. This was not false knock unlike many people think if really is. ...............

I feel your pain!
Having fought through this for 2 years, I finally got it figured it out.
Trust me, it kept me awake at night and I have grey hair to prove it , but it was NOT going to beat me!
In the end, it was not the alky system.
If you have audible KR, but if the scantool does not show anything, do you know if the chip has KR ignore?

............. BTW mixing of the 2 fuel do mess with the o2 reading also so guys beware don't try to run lean when using the alky/pump gas mix. alky has a diffrent stoich than racegas/pump gas. thats why the guys with the o2 correction turned on in the fast and then start ading alky it makes the corection #'s go up because of the diffrent stoich of the fuels. ........

Actually, I think the fuel correction is a result of "adding fuel" (through the alky injection), so the ECM pulls fuel (if boost and load are constant) to maintain AFR.
I am no expert, but here are few post on this concern;

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge...07-does-ethanol-affect-wideband-readings.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/al...w-does-methanol-affect-wideband-readings.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/al.../163230-tuning-progressive-meth-wbo2-egt.html

 

[bsdlinux]

Ok you Alky and race gas guys duke it out. This is great entertainmant for us E-85 guys :biggrin:

 

[Turbo1dr]

The alky hive has had enough poking. They bees are out swarming today.....AAHHHHHH!

The truth is, the main reason for running alky is cost not performance. Obviously, a turbo regal can run faster on race gas than 93+alky. I have yet to see any 93+alky car running faster than race gas fueled cars at ANY GS Nationals. I believe the time slips have been as low as the 7's in the quarter....no??? Was this done with 93+alky....most likely not. And if they were running alky it was WITH race fuel. So face the truth all you "alky-bees" its NOT better than race fuel...just cheaper to buy.

 

[Roc87]

99% street car here since I haven't been to the track in over 2 years, so alky wins hands down. Now if it was on the track more, I'd still use alky with a dash of C16 in the tank for good measure. I do agree with the timing issue. I still cannot raise the timing as high with alky as I could with the C16, I think it's more a tuning issue on mine though. I think I started with alky when the car had between 120-125k miles on it, and it's been well abused since then

With the newer cars (SRT4, H/C LS1,LS2,LS6 & many other cars that turbos are finding their way onto) I'd hate to be without some form of defense!

 

[Nasty Wendy]

Race gas and Alky are as different as K-Y Jelly and Lip Balm. They can be used for the same thing but truly are made for different applications.

Methanol(alky) is not made for turbo applications??

What I mean is Race gas is for RACING. While Alky is great on the street its not nearly as good as Race gas for RACING. Ever have transitional knock with Race gas?

Alky is a huge performance giver on the street and is O2 sensor safe. It is very affordable and is only used when needed which makes it a no brainer choice for street driven vehicles that are owned by folks who can't afford to commute on 116,112, or even 104 octane race fuel.


Here is a scenario.
You are the proud owner of beautiful Staged powered GN. Your car is capable of running mid 9s on drag radials. You have over $10k invested in the drive train. You get 'called out' by a punk at the track that just blasted his way across the finish line for his all-time best 10 seconds flat pass in his Convertible 1970 Oldsmobile 442. ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF decends from heaven and states that both of you will HAVE to race and it will be for PINKS. ........................You can chose to run either 93 pumpgas w/Alky or C-116. What do you chose?

 

[Jerryl]

.......The truth is, the main reason for running alky is cost not performance. Obviously, a turbo regal can run faster on race gas than 93+alky. I have yet to see any 93+alky car running faster than race gas fueled cars at ANY GS Nationals. I believe the time slips have been as low as the 7's in the quarter....no??? Was this done with 93+alky....most likely not. And if they were running alky it was WITH race fuel. So face the truth all you "alky-bees" its NOT better than race fuel...just cheaper to buy.

Yeah, you are right on the 7 second car and cost issue.
It is probably fair to say that those who run 7 seconds do not worry about fuel cost at all, even at $20/gal.

Not trying to be a smart @$$, but;
What about on a low 12 second car? Does the race gas vs. 93/alky principles still apply?

 

[Grumpy]

The alky hive has had enough poking. They bees are out swarming today.....AAHHHHHH!

The truth is, the main reason for running alky is cost not performance. Obviously, a turbo regal can run faster on race gas than 93+alky. I have yet to see any 93+alky car running faster than race gas fueled cars at ANY GS Nationals. I believe the time slips have been as low as the 7's in the quarter....no??? Was this done with 93+alky....most likely not. And if they were running alky it was WITH race fuel. So face the truth all you "alky-bees" its NOT better than race fuel...just cheaper to buy.

well I like alky because its a no brainer goin to the track .. take out some air in the tires and race with the same set up we drive on the street with ummmmm some guys go faster with 93 and alky than race gas ... it has been done around here ... we have a very small set up in Melissa's car yet she is faster and quicker than many that have a lot more than her :wink: like I said we drive this car everywhere :biggrin: and the #1 thing to this whole Alky/Racegas thread is how people tune their cars ..or should I say how they don't :redface:

 

[Grumpy]

Yeah, you are right on the 7 second car and cost issue.
It is probably fair to say that those who run 7 seconds do not worry about fuel cost at all, even at $20/gal.

Not trying to be a smart @$$, but;
What about on a low 12 second car? Does the race gas vs. 93/alky principles still apply?

my opinion race cars = race gas ... street cars = ALKY that beats a lot of race cars :biggrin:

 

[hrhoward]

What I mean is Race gas is for RACING. While Alky is great on the street its not nearly as good as Race gas for RACING. Ever have transitional knock with Race gas?

Alky is a huge performance giver on the street and is O2 sensor safe. It is very affordable and is only used when needed which makes it a no brainer choice for street driven vehicles that are owned by folks who can't afford to commute on 116,112, or even 104 octane race fuel.

Yep

 

[Hyboost]

I run alchy, keep it at 25 lbs. If I know I'm going to the track that weekend, turn the boost to 28 lbs, add 6 gallons of 100 octane, and get no knock. I love my $11.00 a gallon alchy. I get at least 2 weeks per gallon.

 

[Turbo1dr]

What about on a low 12 second car? Does the race gas vs. 93/alky principles still apply?

That's what this thread was originally suppose to be about...which one is better to use in that situation. But instead, all the alky guys have swarmed in and made this entire thread revolve around two things: 1, "The cost between the two." & 2, Personal preference. Can someone explain which one is better without using the word "cost" or "cheaper" or "easy to find" or "easy to use" in their answer? Not a soul has explained which one is best to use for the best performance at any HP level. I think the original poster wanted to know that answer.


On a side note...
With all the fuss in the years past about the stock intake being so problematic about flowing equally to all cylinders I'd hope that EVERYONE that has alky also has a power plate. Even then, it's not guaranteed that the flow pattern of the alky spray is evenly distributed to all cylinders. It might be wise to relocate your knock sensor to the front of the engine so it can "hear" those two cylinders better. Something to think about.

 

[bsdlinux]

ok....im gonna stick my hand in liquid nitrogen........ so bottom of the line is ____________ is best hands down....someone fill in the blank.

Under what conditions??

 

[Pronto]

Performance

Sure, I used 93 with Xylene with a 100 octain TT chip then used straight 100ul for a year. Same chip/boost, etc and ET-12.7. Went to Alky with the same chip/boost/etc and ran 12.5. Upgraded from stock turbo and got an alky chip. With very little tuning (if you want to call turning the control knob up 1 line) it ran great-11.79. Thankyou Eric for burning an awsome chip. I definately found a performance boost on the street. Hot weather used to absolutely kill my power but it's noticeably better with Alky injection.

 

[bsdlinux]

Sure, I used 93 with Xylene with a 100 octain TT chip then used straight 100ul for a year.

Since when has 100ul become Race gas??

 

[SHADOWII]

If the question...

is solely about H/P, that can be anwered by a dyno comparison and held as conclusive. If the question is solely based on performance, then it is subject to our tune, weather, and other variables, which are only going to lead back to our opinions No? It is very difficult to produce solid evidence on experiences w/o including our biases and/or our supporting evidences will , more than likely, lead again to our opinions. Yeah or nay?