Walbro Fuel Pump Update

[montecarlofast]

There is not reason why a reputable fuel pump manufacturer like Walbro should have to be any less reliable or be made any less quality than a so called OE pump. nor should we say "just because its a PERFORMANCE part it doesn't have to be held to the same standard as OE" It should be built better. not worse. So The performance part excuse doesn't fly for me. Then there's the point that not everyone builds everything on there car right away. What about the guy who just gets into the Buick game. Buys a totally stock GN and decides to do a fuel pump so later down the road when he starts bolting on a bigger turbo, injectors etc, he will be ready and bought one of these faulty pumps. He puts it in and doesn't have a Scanmaster (which you probably wouldn't think about putting in a bone stock car as the first mod) While driving it, the pump goes bad, over time or instantly. his head gaskets fail, or he melts a piston just having fun on stock boost. Wheres he left at? the so called "performance part that was supposed to fit into the stock location without a problem" now ruined his Buick experience. Hopefully this hasn't happened but my point is, Not everyone is going to put on EGT Scan master, etc just to make sure the fuel pump we buy isn't going to fail.

 

[Beamer]

When did your pump go bad? What damage did it cause? Who is it you're going after, is it walbro or full throttle?
Since this is not a stock replacement part, and is technically an aftermarket performance part how do you justify blaming anyone? Anyone but yourself that is? Generally speaking performance/aftermarket parts carry no specific warrantability against damage to other systems because of the nature of their intended use.
Fuel pumps in general (not specifically) will have two main failure modes. They will either up and die stopping all fuel delivery, or they will slowly start showing symptoms of delivery issues.

The latter is pretty easy to spot, especially with someone who has the scan tools necessary to monitor what's going on under the hood.

Not meaning to throw any spears, but with all the equipment you have to monitor how things are going, it should be pretty easy to spot a changing trend. I've got the same "tools" you do, and it's actually pretty easy to keep an eye on when things aren't right. "Why is my car starting to run leaner than usual"? etc. etc.

That Walbro is willing to go the extra mile and replace the known bad pumps is pretty good. Expecting anyone to pay for other damages is pushing it.

Next time you break a crankshaft in half and it "windows" your block, try going after the crank manufacturer to replace your block.

See what I mean?

Dave,

I completely understand that it was a performance part. I am not going after Walbro or FTS. Where I chimed in earlier in this thread was dealing with the response that I received from Mike. As I stated through a few posts, I called Mike and explained my situation to him. I even began the call with thanking him for his efforts to take care of this problem. Which was that I had a pump that was leaking down on me with the symptoms described of the failures of these pumps. I then explained that I had a brand new pump in my trunk purchased from him, and I did not feel comportable installing and using it due to these problems with this model. Being that they had no alternative pump to provide me at FTS at the time, I asked for a store credit for the new pump, as I was looking to get a 340M from Racetronix, and when things finally came about with Walbro, I would not need 2 spares. Mike told me that he would not do anything for me because Walbro was not going to do anything for him. And that I should use it as only some of them exhibit this problem. He then began to rant and rave about his feeling that Buick turbo people are big complainers and there is no wonder that aftermarket companies did not want to support us. Needless to say, I posted in this thread that that his response was not satisfactory to me. Mike then came in with a response accusing me of not mentioning about him saying that it would be replaced. I am almost completely positive that it was not me that he said that to. Maybe someone else called him just before me and griped up and down to him and put him in a bad mood or something. But it was not me that he said that to. Scott keeps telling me that I should not be upset about this type of service, but Mike has never chimed in to respond to me.

I truly have nothing directly against Walbro, I quote them as walbroke, just because of this current problem with these broke pumps.

I hope you may better understand where I come from now.

Mike



Mike

 

[TurboDave]

There is not reason why a reputable fuel pump manufacturer like Walbro should have to be any less reliable or be made any less quality than a so called OE pump. nor should we say "just because its a PERFORMANCE part it doesn't have to be held to the same standard as OE" It should be built better. not worse. So The performance part excuse doesn't fly for me. Then there's the point that not everyone builds everything on there car right away. What about the guy who just gets into the Buick game. Buys a totally stock GN and decides to do a fuel pump so later down the road when he starts bolting on a bigger turbo, injectors etc, he will be ready and bought one of these faulty pumps. He puts it in and doesn't have a Scanmaster (which you probably wouldn't think about putting in a bone stock car as the first mod) While driving it, the pump goes bad, over time or instantly. his head gaskets fail, or he melts a piston just having fun on stock boost. Wheres he left at? the so called "performance part that was supposed to fit into the stock location without a problem" now ruined his Buick experience. Hopefully this hasn't happened but my point is, Not everyone is going to put on EGT Scan master, etc just to make sure the fuel pump we buy isn't going to fail.

If one installs performance parts for the purpose of increasing performance beyond design criteria, then one BETTER be smart enough to invest in the needed tools to monitor what's going on.... Whether it be an EGT or WBO2, or something as simple as a Scanmaster, or a bit more sophisticated Powerlogger, etc. OR one must suffer the consequences of their actions.

I know of no performance parts manufacturers/off road parts manufacturers that will warranty anything beyond the specific part they sell, and certainly nothing beyond it if damage is caused because of it's failure.

Do you seriously thing Diamond would replace your ruined engine of one of their pistons came apart?

Try to be a bit less naive.
If an OE part fails, then there are other avenues to explore.

 

[TurboDave]

Dave,

I completely understand that it was a performance part. I am not going after Walbro or FTS. Where I chimed in earlier in this thread was dealing with the response that I received from Mike. As I stated through a few posts, I called Mike and explained my situation to him. I even began the call with thanking him for his efforts to take care of this problem. Which was that I had a pump that was leaking down on me with the symptoms described of the failures of these pumps. I then explained that I had a brand new pump in my trunk purchased from him, and I did not feel comportable installing and using it due to these problems with this model. Being that they had no alternative pump to provide me at FTS at the time, I asked for a store credit for the new pump, as I was looking to get a 340M from Racetronix, and when things finally came about with Walbro, I would not need 2 spares. Mike told me that he would not do anything for me because Walbro was not going to do anything for him. And that I should use it as only some of them exhibit this problem. He then began to rant and rave about his feeling that Buick turbo people are big complainers and there is no wonder that aftermarket companies did not want to support us. Needless to say, I posted in this thread that that his response was not satisfactory to me. Mike then came in with a response accusing me of not mentioning about him saying that it would be replaced. I am almost completely positive that it was not me that he said that to. Maybe someone else called him just before me and griped up and down to him and put him in a bad mood or something. But it was not me that he said that to. Scott keeps telling me that I should not be upset about this type of service, but Mike has never chimed in to respond to me.

I truly have nothing directly against Walbro, I quote them as walbroke, just because of this current problem with these broke pumps.

I hope you may better understand where I come from now.

Mike



Mike

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I can understand why Mike wasn't able to do anything. You are carrying a pump around in your trunk (for how long?).
Now you want it refunded? I wouldn't. Don't know if it's in the same run as the bad ones. Don't know what kind of condition it's in after being packed away in your trunk for who knows how long. It could easilly have been damaged there as anywhere. It could just as easilly be a perfect pump.
You have way more than enough tools (WBO2, Powerlogger etc.) to keep an eye on it if you choose to install it.
I mean, your trying to collect cash for something that may be a perfectly good pump.

 

[montecarlofast]

Well, all i know Turbo Dave is that If I put a pump in my car, and consequest to the pump Being DEFECTIVE to the point that it roasts my motor, I would not go on a forum and do any personal attacks. (not that I am saying anyones ANYONES posts on here are wrong because I can understand the emotion of working hard on something and having it ruined) I would just get the proof I needed, and handle it Civil. My bottom line on this post and then I will shut up is, It really sucks that 1 the fuel pumps were defective, 2 that a lot of peoples motors have been affected by this, 3. That some think consequences for a defective fuel pump end at the tank.

 

[Grumpy]

OMG all this crap over a $100 pump IF ya have scan tools you are goin to SEE you have a prob .. If your not watching then BOOM and its your fault.. oh rather than spending a $100 on a wussey junk pump like you say they are move up and spend some $$$ on a Weldon or something like it .. Then you will NEVER have another fuel problem... ya right .... as far as the Lawyer thing .. give me a break . guess body injury cases are down and now they are lookin for new cases Ahhhh isn't the net great !!

 

[scot w.]

It really sucks that:
1) the fuel pumps were defective.

YES it does suck! I agree BUT,
It also sucks when heavy duty U-joints fail and cause damage!
It also sucks when the crank scatters and windows the block!
It also sucks when a fuel filter gets clogged and starves the engine of fuel and it also causes failure!
It also sucks when a injector has debris in it and it starves that cylinder of fuel and it causes failure!
It also sucks when you get bad gas and it causes failure!
It also sucks when a piston gets melted and causes failure!

BOTTOM LINE, Proper monitoring of your engine will help prevent these from happening!!

The hard part is pointing the blame! Secondly the hard part is having the blamed party fix it!!

2 )that a lot of peoples motors have been affected by this

Question really here is,
Really how many have been hurt?
How many can honestly PROVE it was the pump just droping off WITHOUT notice?

Look at Julio's ALKY control kit closely, It's a product for making more performance of your car right? Look closely at the small print everywhere stating " For off road use only, Not reponsable for damage" !!! This means it is a performance part that has the possibility of going bad at some point!
Hell it's a mechanical part for gods sake, it's not going to last forever!!! What will you guy's do when a alky pump STARTS to go bad and you don't catch it in time and you granade your engine??

BOTTOM LINE, Proper monitoring of your engine will help prevent this from happening

3 )That some think consequences for a defective fuel pump end at the tank.

And there are those who think otherwise and go through life having to blame someone else all the time and think that others must pay the consequences. Those people are always right I guess.

Scot W.

 

[scot w.]

OMG all this crap over a $100 pump IF ya have scan tools you are goin to SEE you have a prob .. If your not watching then BOOM and its your fault.. oh rather than spending a $100 on a wussey junk pump like you say they are move up and spend some $$$ on a Weldon or something like it .. Then you will NEVER have another fuel problem... ya right .... as far as the Lawyer thing .. give me a break . guess body injury cases are down and now they are lookin for new cases Ahhhh isn't the net great !!

+100 :biggrin:

Thats what I was trying to get across

 

[Beamer]

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I can understand why Mike wasn't able to do anything. You are carrying a pump around in your trunk (for how long?).
Now you want it refunded? I wouldn't. Don't know if it's in the same run as the bad ones. Don't know what kind of condition it's in after being packed away in your trunk for who knows how long. It could easilly have been damaged there as anywhere. It could just as easilly be a perfect pump.
You have way more than enough tools (WBO2, Powerlogger etc.) to keep an eye on it if you choose to install it.
I mean, your trying to collect cash for something that may be a perfectly good pump.

Dave,

You know... I have a lot of respect for you, as you have helped me before and it was very much appreciated. But some things that you say here, I feel - in my opinion - are wrong. What on earth could happen to it in my trunk inside a box with other parts kept for a when needed repair. Maybe a rat eat away at it? I do not know. Next, it was not cash I was requesting, but store credit - as explained to Scott earlier - is not the same as a refund. Hence, the profit margin is still with FTS. With all of this in mind, I felt that there was a progress began with Walbro to replace all of these pumps, and expected that it would be replaced in the future. Look at what has been posted here on Mikes other thread. New and defective pumps are being replaced. Now this is the dreaded F...169 pump. You feel that it may not be one of the bad ones. I tell you what... I will send this new pump to install into your car. You run it and take your chances with it. You want it? But you have to install it, and I trust that you will if I send it to you. I really think that you are not willing to.

You are correct that I have all the tools to find problems such as this on my car. I knew that I had a problem, but could not figure it out until I read more into this problem being found.



Grumpy...

I hope you understand who it is that may have looked into the lawyer stuff. It was not me. I do not feel it is warranted for this problem, but do feel that what is being done by Walbro was very much a should be done action. I do feel comfort that they are taking back all of the pumps, to not put us to a situation where we would either loose our money or feel obligated to run a possibility to have the pump installed and cause damage if not caught in time.

Mike

 

[challengermike]

I would have to agree with the eariler post stating that if you did put this in a car that is completely stock for an upgrade and blew it up because of it that would suck.Why would you expect it to perform worse than the factory pump.I doubt somebody with a stock car would have any monitering devices in the car,why would they,the cars all stock with xxx xxx amount of miles and never had to worry about monitering fuel pressure before.I myself have blown a set of head gaskets this year due to a pump dieing a slow death.Mine would lose pressure @ wot once and awhile and i couldnt figure it out.1 run it would be fine the next instant knock with no changes.I thought the alky was not working some times,so i replaced the alky pump.Didnt help at all.Well i parked it for winter and went to pull it out of the garage the other day and it died.Opened the hood to check the pressure and 0 pressure.I am glad it didnt leave me stranded somewhere.So i ordered a denso,and i am putting it in tommarow.Maybe what should be done is to post a way to contact warlbro directly about this problem,let them deal with the pissed off people.Just dont get mad at the many people who have these pump and have had problems with them,also dont get mad at the people selling them because they didnt make them.They seem like they are tring to work out a way to get the replaced.I see both sides of the fence,but either way it a no win for either party.

 

[Grumpy]

I was discussing this with a lawyer, we sat and looked at this thread and some of the other dead Walbro fuel pumps threads and he said this situation meets all of the Class action requirements he also said all it needs is one guy with a dead motor caused by a "NEW" "169" pump to file a law suit and then notify the other people that took a direct loss because of the pump and the action would get started.

Beamer I wasn't talking about you .. here is the post . He also said to get a lawyer involved with a turbo problem a guy was having. (paid for a turbo and never got it) I am just showing my age here .. getting a lawyer involved is just giving them a "job" .. who USUALLY makes out ??? the LAWYER NOT you !! even if a lawyer got a judgment for you .. try collecting it.. as it goes ya can't get blood from a stone. in the turbo case the lawyer 's bill would be WAY over what he would ever get back ..so he lost $$$ even though he won there are "other" ways to solve stupid things like that. showing up at their doorstep and watch their spine crumble ok thats all Ill add to this thread. have fun guys.. ya have all winter

 

[TurboDave]

Well, all i know Turbo Dave is that If I put a pump in my car, and consequest to the pump Being DEFECTIVE to the point that it roasts my motor, I would not go on a forum and do any personal attacks. (not that I am saying anyones ANYONES posts on here are wrong because I can understand the emotion of working hard on something and having it ruined) I would just get the proof I needed, and handle it Civil. My bottom line on this post and then I will shut up is, It really sucks that 1 the fuel pumps were defective, 2 that a lot of peoples motors have been affected by this, 3. That some think consequences for a defective fuel pump end at the tank.

First of all, don't be shoot'n any arrows at me for personal attacks. I've made none. Just questions and observations.
If you are serious enough to think you could get anywhere taking it civil with aftermarket performance parts....well good luck. Let us all know how "that" works out for ya.

 

[TurboDave]

Dave,

You know... I have a lot of respect for you, as you have helped me before and it was very much appreciated. But some things that you say here, I feel - in my opinion - are wrong. What on earth could happen to it in my trunk inside a box with other parts kept for a when needed repair.

Well, it is an electro-mechanical device after-all, who knows what can happen. I was just thinking out loud.
You did keep it, laying around beyond it's warranty period, right? Probably not something I might have done. Look at it this way, if it had not been one of "the" pumps and some other type, and you installed it a year or so after buying it, what warranty recourse would you have assuming it failed?
Again, just thinking out loud.

You feel that it may not be one of the bad ones. I tell you what... I will send this new pump to install into your car. You run it and take your chances with it. You want it? But you have to install it, and I trust that you will if I send it to you. I really think that you are not willing to.

It's not whether or not it's any good or not. Besides, it wouldn't fit in my tank. I run a rather unusual setup. A pair of stock OEM pumps in a staged double pumper setup. I believe that setup is pushing 12 years of age now.

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this hunt, so I'll bow out and hopefully everything works out for the pump owners involved.

 

[Beamer]

Dave,

You know... I have a lot of respect for you, as you have helped me before and it was very much appreciated. But some things that you say here, I feel - in my opinion - are wrong. What on earth could happen to it in my trunk inside a box with other parts kept for a when needed repair.[/quote}

Well, it is an electro-mechanical device after-all, who knows what can happen. I was just thinking out loud.
You did keep it, laying around beyond it's warranty period, right? Probably not something I might have done. Look at it this way, if it had not been one of "the" pumps and some other type, and you installed it a year or so after buying it, what warranty recourse would you have assuming it failed?
Again, just thinking out loud.



It's not whether or not it's any good or not. Besides, it wouldn't fit in my tank. I run a rather unusual setup. A pair of stock OEM pumps in a staged double pumper setup. I believe that setup is pushing 12 years of age now.

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this hunt, so I'll bow out and hopefully everything works out for the pump owners involved.

It is all good Dave... I understand and appreciate your thinking out loud. And what I was saying was truly to point out that I do not think anyone is willing to take a chance with the defective style. I hope that it works out also, it looks good with what has been put out. I will be sending mine in soon as soon as I get the tank dropped to change out the defective unit. Mike posted that they are replacing new unused pumps also, which is what started this mess of an disagreement now. Thanks for helping to keep me civil, LOL...

Be good and enjoy.

Mike

 

[scot w.]

Mike

I have been collecting all the pumps I have changed, in my own car and in customers cars,

I have tossed at least 5 in the garbage for sure but I have 3 in front of me.

the oldest pump is 07/04 as stamped by racetronix and the others are late 2006

Please let us know when to start sending them in.

Thanks again for all your efforts on this. it will not go un noticed..

Bill

Well i'm glad to see that i'm not the only one with a bad F20000169 pump stamped by racetronix on 07/04..

Did you send yours in yet?

Scot W.


( Does yours look like this?)

 

[BadAssGN]

Thats the same thing I have, I am waiting to see what happens with your pump. :biggrin:

Well i'm glad to see that i'm not the only one with a bad F20000169 pump stamped by racetronix on 07/04..

Did you send yours in yet?

Scot W.


( Does yours look like this?)

 

[scot w.]

Thats the same thing I have, I am waiting to see what happens with your pump. :biggrin:

I have spoke to Jeff @ VE this morning and told him the issue and he is looking into this and will get back to me later today.

Scot w.

 

[J T Performance]

Walbro F20000169 FACTS

i just wanted to through this out there to possibly shed some light on the subject.....

In speaking with a "source" regarding this situation here is what I have.....

1) They are going to replace any defective pump (pump that has quite working)
2) They will replace any new/unused stock.

These replacement issues must be done throught the vender you purchased them from who will inturn contact the National Warehouse.

Walbro has determine and isolated a component issue from one of its supplier in 2007. Please note that not ever pump produced was bad (ask Mike stated), it was very speratic problem in production.

If you have a pump that is installed and working it has already been through the "heat cycle" and if it was going to fail it would have already.

In addition, from what I am told the pump that are sent back will have the date code documented and recorded and anything that may have been from 2006 or older is not covered and there is selective coverage in 2007 as not all pumps were affected. All pump sent back as "warranty" are tested to determine if the claim is truly valid.

I hope that any of this information is helpful. if anyone has any additional comment please tell.

Thanks,

JT

 

[ThikStik]

I would think that the info now on this thread pertaining to user vigilance of engine parameters would throw the lawsuit, maybe even cause it to fail summary judgement. This hot roddin stuff is d!@# near not worth it anymore.
Im still betting on the bad sub component being chinese.

 

[QWKRTNU]

Good to know we have a good company out there still