110 vs 118 octane

[Renthorin]

I mix my gas with 93 octane to get approximately 100 octane.

I have been mixing 110 with 93 at 50/50 but I just found a place that sells 118 so I could mix that at 1/2 with 93 to get my beloved 100 octane.

I have never used 118. Is there anything in that which isn't in 110 that would be bad for my GN?

Is there more lead in 118 than 110?



PS - before anyone says it....I already have alky, just want the ease and smell of high-octane gas

 

[Boost231]

i have run 118 in my car straight before. i dont see any difference over C16 or any other high octane. yes one might say it has more lead but oif your still mixing no big deal. what is the price difference doing it both ways? is it cheaper one way or another?

 

[Renthorin]

100 straight from the pump is 5.49 a gallon.
110 in a 55-gallon drum is 5.57 a gallon.
118 in a 55-gallon drum is 8.18 a gallon. (Can I get a good lord!)

Currently 93 is 3.05 a gallon so:
To get 100 from 100 I pay 5.49 a gallon.
To get 100 from 110 I mix 1 / 1 with 93 and pay 4.31 a gallon net.
To get 100 from 118 I mix 1 / 2 with 93 and pay 4.73 a gallon net.

118 is more expensive that 110 but as I am mixing it with 2 gallons of 93 instead of 1 to 1 like 110, it will last longer.

I will probably go with the 110 so I can put 6 gallons of 110 and 6 of 93 in and not have to measure.

 

[Boost231]

that would be the way to go. i wonder how much i can get a drum of c16 for. since my bike and my car would both love c16 all the time that might be the way to go. thanks for the info.

 

[ChavoLC2]

Lead

VP Racing Fuels is what we have here. In reading the literature. They put 4.23 grams of LEAD per gal in all their Racing fuels which is the max. allowed by the Surgen General. C-16 actually has an Motor octane number of 117 and is recomended for Turbocharged/ Blowers, Nitrous, and pylon Racing planes. VP uses Motor octane on their racing fuels rather then research octane because the test is more relevent to racing. Most othe fuel companies use research numbers because it's easier to come by and octane numbers maybe higher

They say the key to getting the Best racing gas is not necessary buying the fuel with the highest octane but getting the one best suited to your engine. the 4 most important qualities is 1. Octane 2. Burning speed 3. Energy value 4. Cooling effect.

Example C-12 has more of a cooling effect or will absorb more heat then C-14 this is especially true in 2 stroke applications. If your dirt bike is a 2 stroker it will run better/cooler with the lower octane then with C-14, what they say is octane isn't the only thing you look at, octane is not the measure of the fuels power output it is only a measure of of it's resistance to preignition and detonation.

Renthorin like your self I'm a mixer. Also Running alky , our Premium gas is so bad I mix C-10 (100 octane unleaded) with our sorry 91 pump gas here. It is the worst so I mix 50/50 when I can afford it. Comes out to around 95. An example of the above, C-10's research octane is 106 and motor octane is 94 so the number on the gas pump is the average of the 2.

Man your thread got me reading , there is alot to learn . very interesting

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I always mixed xylene instead of leaded gas, and was getting xylene for $4.50 a gallon.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

In that mixed price cost, be sure to add in an O2 sensor every once in a while...

 

[Terry_H]

Lead will quickly ruin/clog a catalytic converter. Not that it would matter to most of you.

 

[Boost231]

who runs a catalytic converter? Also who doesnt have at least a few extra o2's on hand at all times. hell i keep one in my glove box

 

[Terry_H]

who runs a catalytic converter?

I do. Open bypass at the track.

 

[VadersV6]

So you run alky AND race gas at the same time? You're going to have such a slow flame that you could be way down on power. If you do anything to chill the intake charge, you NEED more timing to get some heat back in the cylinders, or you'll be way down on power. You'll also run rich...so rich that the o2 readings will be meaningless. theres a recent magazine I have at home, with this renegade 5.0 guy who made his own water cooled intercooler vs no cooler that is also an upper lid for the intake..its all integral. Anyway, he was running something like 16 degrees timing without the cooler...no IC and 25psi and no alky kinda makes that necessary. The cooler was working extremely well. He lost about 150rwhp. 535rwhp or so. Plus the a/f became so rich it was off the scale. He had to put another 9 degrees timing in it and got his power back, up to about 690rwhp. But his a/f was still around 10:1..but he had pulled all the fuel out that he could. With just the cooling of the air charge to within 20 degrees of ambient, the flame was so dead he HAD to get heat back in the cylinders and that was the only way. And he wasnt spraying alky. Most TR's already have good IC's. Add a slow burning fuel and then alky ontop of it....seems you can overcool an intake charge. The alky ontop of a good IC already chills the hell out of the charge, add a pretty slow burning combustion chamber, and then way too much octane, and I can see the wagon rolling backward.

 

[Boost231]

my car is a hotair car and trying to get the temps down is one thing. i was thinking of running some good gas in the tank and spraying just a mist of alky to cool. i would rather buy a drum of C16 then a drum of C12 or anything else since my street bike runs on C16 if its not on pump gas. VadersV6 have you posted that info in the alky vs race gas thread. i would like to see what they think. it makes since to me what your saying but that info is way over my head.

 

[Renthorin]

No I don't run alky at the same time as race gas. I keep the alky for backup in case I can't get good gas and am away from home. I love the smell of race gas so much I run that instead of alky.

My o2 sensors last for about 3k miles which is about what I put on the car a year and at 16 bucks....eh....I don't even think about it

I am pretty close to the Ann Arbor airport. I could see what they charge for gas. Good suggestion on the av fuel.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I don't know how you guys get that much milage out of the 02 sensors. I'd put the c16 in the tank at the track, make about 5 passes then leave the track and before I'd make it 4 miles from the track, the car would throw an 02 sensor code.

 

[Renthorin]

Well I am diluting 50% with 93 octane so I have that much less lead...

I get the best results from the Denso (sp) sensors.

 

[SloGN]

So you run alky AND race gas at the same time? You're going to have such a slow flame that you could be way down on power. If you do anything to chill the intake charge, you NEED more timing to get some heat back in the cylinders, or you'll be way down on power. You'll also run rich...so rich that the o2 readings will be meaningless. theres a recent magazine I have at home, with this renegade 5.0 guy who made his own water cooled intercooler vs no cooler that is also an upper lid for the intake..its all integral. Anyway, he was running something like 16 degrees timing without the cooler...no IC and 25psi and no alky kinda makes that necessary. The cooler was working extremely well. He lost about 150rwhp. 535rwhp or so. Plus the a/f became so rich it was off the scale. He had to put another 9 degrees timing in it and got his power back, up to about 690rwhp. But his a/f was still around 10:1..but he had pulled all the fuel out that he could. With just the cooling of the air charge to within 20 degrees of ambient, the flame was so dead he HAD to get heat back in the cylinders and that was the only way. And he wasnt spraying alky. Most TR's already have good IC's. Add a slow burning fuel and then alky ontop of it....seems you can overcool an intake charge. The alky ontop of a good IC already chills the hell out of the charge, add a pretty slow burning combustion chamber, and then way too much octane, and I can see the wagon rolling backward.

I tried this a few yrs ago when i had my car on the dyno spraying the alky on top of the race gas and the car lost power like 20 hp. but the A/F changed maybe 2-3 tenths but when i posted it here i was told that i was crazy or my tune was off for the reason it lost power.


thanks for the info i was a good read

 

[Boost231]

you should start a new thread with what you posted and see what people think.

 

[NJ Torque]

I pay 3.90 a gallon for 100 octane....

 

[Boost231]

vader so what would be a good mix to run so i can run high boost and good timing. would 100octane and alky work or maybe more octane???

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

So you run alky AND race gas at the same time? You're going to have such a slow flame that you could be way down on power. If you do anything to chill the intake charge, you NEED more timing to get some heat back in the cylinders, or you'll be way down on power. You'll also run rich...so rich that the o2 readings will be meaningless. theres a recent magazine I have at home, with this renegade 5.0 guy who made his own water cooled intercooler vs no cooler that is also an upper lid for the intake..its all integral. Anyway, he was running something like 16 degrees timing without the cooler...no IC and 25psi and no alky kinda makes that necessary. The cooler was working extremely well. He lost about 150rwhp. 535rwhp or so. Plus the a/f became so rich it was off the scale. He had to put another 9 degrees timing in it and got his power back, up to about 690rwhp. But his a/f was still around 10:1..but he had pulled all the fuel out that he could. With just the cooling of the air charge to within 20 degrees of ambient, the flame was so dead he HAD to get heat back in the cylinders and that was the only way. And he wasnt spraying alky. Most TR's already have good IC's. Add a slow burning fuel and then alky ontop of it....seems you can overcool an intake charge. The alky ontop of a good IC already chills the hell out of the charge, add a pretty slow burning combustion chamber, and then way too much octane, and I can see the wagon rolling backward.

Oh... I see said the blind man. So youre telling me that my plans of super cooling my buick should hold off for a while? lol. DAMMIT! Just when I learn one thing... I learn another. And that makes the first thing I learned change lol. VERY good to know. So, how does one really find what their engine loves the best? 1. Octane 2. Burning speed 3. Energy value 4. Cooling effect.
Are there any premade charts? Can someone master buick jedi like cal hartline, jack cotton, jason cramer, eric marshall, mike licht etc etc tell us what's goin on? I think this is pretty important stuff here. I'm not sure I care to put any fuel in my beloved car, that probably shouldnt be there.

So tell me, if our combustion chambers and a/f mixes could be too cool, could a hotter spark from a cockier sparkplug even things up a bit? Does it work like that? Like every buick owner, I want the optimum combination for my car.