110º or 112º lobe seperation opinions???

[turbov6joe]

For my winter project I'm doing a few things to my 14k mile TTA, IE... timing chain, 110 pound valve springs, rear main seal, port matching, and overall cleaning and detailing. I'm looking at the Comp Cams 212-212 duration cam as a repalcement for my basically stock street/strip TTA. I have 2 choices of lobe seperation, which one do you all think would work best for my combo and why?

Rather than list all the stock stuff, I'll post what is NOT stock so you can assume that all else is as the factory shipped the car, TIA.

TE44
Stretch IC
MSD 50's
Powerplate
ATR 2.5" DP
Walbro 340
K&N
Testpipe
Stageright transbrake
HD valve springs

 

[Doug Jacobson]

I'd go with the 112, reason being the idle will be smother. The less LSA the choppier a cam seems to be. But a lower LSA the more low end a motor will make for the given specs, are cars make low end in droves.

 

[turbov6joe]

Doug,
I completely agree with ya on the low end power comment. My motor makes over 600 lb-ft at a mere 3500 rpm, and is still well over 400 lb-ft at 5000 rpm! If anything, I'd like to take away some of that low end grunt and move it to the higher rpm range, say 4000-5200 rpm. As it is now I can't get enough traction, leaving a tad softer might help to get me down the track in a straight line
I sold a "race" car to get this VERY clean/low mile TTA, and the last thing I want to do is take away from its streetability and the pleasure it is to drive on the weekends. However, beings that I'll be SO far into the motor very shortly, it almost seems a waste not to do a cam swap for some extra HP while I'm in the guts of the motor. HOWEVER, and that's a very large HOWEVER, I dread the entire cam break-in and the worries that come along with a new cam. Anyhow, thanks for the opinion...keep'em comming.

 

[Lee Thompson]

valve springs

IMO - 110 lbs. valve spring pressure is about 20 lbs. too much.
It took 3 cams for me to find this out. Maybe you will have better success than me.---Good kuck

 

[turbov6joe]

Lee,
After I made that last post about spring pressure, I went out to the garage to verify my info. Actually, the spring pressure is 100 pounds, not 110 like I originally thought. In the past I used the 100 pounders and had good luck not wasting cam lobes, so hopefully this will apply to this build-up (knocking on wood). What kind of problems did you have with the heavier spring pressures?

 

[Nick Micale]

Few of the "experts" I have discussed turbo Buick cam specs with agree on LSA of 112 -114. This is for a drag car application like yours. May not be the best choice for other applications like road racing or round track.

 

[Lee Thompson]

?

I was losing lobes on different brand cams (Reed, Lunati, Schneider) until I sent one back to Schneider. When it came back the new cam card said 90 psi spring pressure ( the old card said 110) I dropped the spring pressure to 90 and also had the cam moly coated. 3 years later the cam looked new. Sold the complete short block to a gentleman in Fl. and far as I know it is still going. Schneider 208-224, best performing cam of them all. I highly recommend that cam but not racers many seem to buy into it.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

I'm running a billet hyd roller cam 210/210 with 110 lsa. Works well. It drives just fine and has tons of torque. at 6400 rpm and 17 psi boost it was still making 365 hp and 300 tq.

I have a similar setup to yours: TE44, V4, ported stock heads...

started the dynojet pull at 3500 rpm in 3rd gear unlocked converter, 17 psi boost. The graph looks like it would make a ton more before 3500 rpm...
3500 - 375 hp 545 tq
4000 - 385 hp 506 tq
4500 - 388 hp 452 tq
5000 - 393 hp 413 tq
5200 - 403 hp 407 tq
5500 - 395 hp 377 tq
5800 - 387 hp 350 tq
6400 - 365 hp 300 tq

I'd be interested in seeing a 112 or 114 lsa on a 210/210 with my setup on the dyno

 

[turbo buicks]

lee, have you tested a 204-214 (specifically the Edelbrock package) and what were your results? in\m thinking of this cam. ive heard the 208-224 is too much for a 3.8.

 

[turbov6joe]

I think my buddy is using that cam in his GN, I'd be curious to hear what it's like as he has yet to fire his new motor up as of recently.

 

[Lee Thompson]

cam

Never tried the 204-214. Lots of people like it. I ran the 208-224 in a 3.8 and 4.1. I liked it in both. My son has a 218-224 billet roller in his stock 3.8 short block. Awsome 1/4 mile speed (128 mph) He did his own port work on his stock iron heads, 70 turbo and a cheap frount mount.--I like to say the only time a cam is too big is when it won/t go in the block.

 

[turbo buicks]

lee, i looked for a 208-224 cam from www.flatlanderracing.com but couldnt find one there. where did you get yours? and what do you mean by the best performing cam? is that all around performance or strictly track? my car is a daily driven car w/minimal track time but i want the power when i need it. also have you tested a 224/228 schneider?

 

[Lee Thompson]

cam

I originally got it from Eastern Performance. Go there or here
Schneider Racing Cams
619-297-0227
San Diego Ca.
This off the cam card
eng.--231 Buick--V-6
Grind---284-OH
Lobe seperation--110 Degree
degree intake lobe to-- 108
@ 1.6 ratio rocker-- Valve lift
intake--.448
exhaust--.495
I didn/t know they made a bigger one. I would have got it.
You will need head work and a 3000 stall convertor
This cam pulls hard to 6000 with 90 lbs springs

 

[turbo buicks]

i have an 3K stall orange stripe converter now and will be porting the heads along with the cam. do you mean i will need the converter and headwork with the the 208-224 or the one i mentioned that you didnt try?

 

[Turbo231]

The first cam I went with was the same one Lee is running...
That was along time ago but I still remember that night!
The car was stock w/ ATR headers and DP.
My buddies and I got the wild hair to swap the cam, we were bored!
So I ordered that cam from Eastern .
This was back in 1990 mind you and there were not alot of options for speed parts.
Anyway the car became a lowend monster!!
would blow the tires off like crazy and soon after I had to replace the injectors with bluetops so I wouldnt lean out .
I liked that cam alot and it is what caused me to go crazy on the car! After that it was the new M&A heads and a T-66 turbo and 9" stall. I was soon a member of the part of the month club!

 

[turbo buicks]

turbo231, what cam are you talking about, the 208-224? how is the idle and low, mid and top end and noise level?

thanks

 

[turbo buicks]

also forgot would the 224-228 be too much ramp speed for a flat tappet cam.

Lee, were all your tests on flat tappet lifter cams?

thanks

 

[sixgun86gn]

Would a wider lobe seperation angle deter detonation or a shorter one.I am curious if those of you with the dual pattern cams have any before and after info with a single pattern or one with less exhaust duration.I am under the impression that a longer exhaust promotes scavenging and increases exhaust pressure for spoolup.Am I wrong?I want to step up the performance into the mid to low 10s after I learn how to get all I can from what I have and have been thinking about a 218/218 cam,but the dual patterns are interesting me more lately.

 

[Intercooler]

I just put my 4.1 short block together tonight and will be sliding the 214/224 in tomorrow. Should be very similar to the cam Lee likes and readily available. I can't wait to blow my 3.8 up so I can see how the 4.1 is going to run


Specs:

214/224

Lobe seperation: 110º
Degree intake lobe to: 108º
Lift: .470"/.495"
Spring pressure: 100 lbs. closed and 290 lbs. open
Advertised duration: 270/290
Intake opens BTDC: 27º
Overlap: 60º
Exhaust closes ATDC: 33º
Intake closes ABDC: 63º
Exhaust opens BBDC: 77º

 

[Turbo231]

Well that cam was the first in a line of many I've tried.
The only Test I've done have been with bigger cams.
My next cam was a 232/232@0.050 solid flat tappet cam.
I was on a 113 CL and pulled forever and was a great cam.
Monster from 3K and up.
Next I ran a 218/218 on a 110 CL
Great cam I loved it and have put it in 4 other TR's
It pulled from off idle to 6500 with my hogged out M&A's
Next one I can't wait for!!!!
It's in my new SII motor 230/228 Extreme solid roller on a 112 with over 0.600 lift
It's for SII heads though....
Still waiting to finish...
But that's another story!