1977 nova----L67 vs. 355 SBC

[Alex77carr]

My name is Alex Carr, I am 19 and I own a '77 nova. I've been building it for the past 2 years and finally came to the conclusion that i'm tired of that old SBC 355.

I talked it over with anyone who would listen. After talking to my instructor, and doing some intense research, I decided that the supercharged 3800 is one bad mofo with some serious potential! I believe this will be the closest thing to suit my needs.

I already have way more in the car than I could ever hope to get out of it; So... the most logical thing seems to be... to make it one hell of a daily driver that will always start and run (very reliable), makes around 300 rwh, good gas milage, and all on a budget!

I have faith!

HERE IS WHAT I GOT :

I pulled a supercharged L67 out of a Pontiac yesterday that is front wheel drive. I am very confident that it can be converted to RWD with little mod... NOVA has a borgwarner T5 in it already that should bolt up perfectly to the motor after I acquire the right bell housing. I have the computer, wiring harness, and fuse box. I am currently enrolled into an automotive program, at the start of the spring semester I will begin engine rebuild, so... rebuilding this engine gets me a grade.

The plan thus far:

1. I would like to find motor mounts for this engine that would allow it to bolt right up to the original 350 brackets, this would make my year!

2. DECENT PERFORMANCE PARTS (Best bang for my buck and no clue as to where I can find them! HELP!!). I was thinking: Headers, Roller Rockers, Rings, Rod Bearings, Inner Cooler.
For the Supercharger (smaller pully, rebuild?). Looking for that 300 hp mark!

3. Clutch, Pressure Plate, Fly Wheel, Bell Housing...

4. Gasket Set (High Quality)...

5. RWD Oil Pan...

6. Figure out the wiring harness, Cut it down so it just runs the fuel injection...

7. Mount the Computer, Dyno, and tune the Motor.

8. I will cut a hole in the hood and mount a cuda style shaker intake.
(cold air intake) MORE POWER=MORE *****!!

9. I think I may need to play with the drive shaft length after all this. ; )

Mind you, I only have about $800 to play with. I know the list is long but, I am confident that the dollar can be stretched. And with the right information it can be done with relatively low stress levels. I am openminded to any and all advice, suggestions, information, and opinions. If you know something I don't, PLEASE speak the hell up! Thank You... -Alex-

 

[Pronto]

Well Alex, I suggest you do a search and you will find out what you need. The fwd block can't be used for a rwd application-trans, intake and mounting points are wrong. You need a rwd 3800 from an F-body. There are some stout turbo 3800s out there in the F-bodies. Good luck with your project.

 

[twodafloor]

.

Listen man- He Has A Plan! and access to a bitching set of tools!

 

[Iron Indian]

Alex,

An L67 has been swapped in RWD applications before. The best person I know of who can help you with this is a man named Dave Norris and he owns Triple Edge Performance (tripleedgeperformance.com). He's swapped an L67 S/Ced into an 86 Cutlass. He also help do a swap for a member here with an 85 GN. Basically they used an L67 long block and built there own turbo setup. There info out there to do this swap. For starters for your accessories you need to look at a 1996-2002 V6 Camaro. Also you can use there oil pan, pick up, oil filter adapter, etc. Luckily for you parts and very plentiful and cheap for the V6 F-body parts.

Good luck...

 

[charlief1]

There's a thread in the general section where trannyman (transmission guy)did the work to turbo a Series II engine and put it in a GN. 10's right out of the box with a little tuning. It can be done and the 3800 Series II engine in the FWD cars is the exact same engine that's in the Camaro.

 

[murphinator]

fwd & rwd blocks are the same as stated above.

several rwd l67's floating around out there including the 2 mentioned above that dave at triple edge built , the cutlass for himself and the GN for Cody link below

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/257876-series-ii-l67-grand-national.html

there are some top swapped f bodies runnnig around and Brad Ziedler I think I spelled his name right is on here and built a rwd mopar with an l67 rwd turismo or duster I think it was

It is very doable , you can also check in the rwd section over on 3800Pro.com Forum , myself and several others have posted pics and links for how to get around the sc /firewall clearance issues as well as links to adaptors to fit many trannys behind an L67

I do some tuning on a firends rock crawler with a rwd/4wd L67 that uses a 700r4 for a trans with a $75 adaptor and his skill to make the cheap adaptor work. this rock crawler is running 30% ethanol blend and will outrun his buddies rock crawler with same chassis ,trans , gearing and a 6.0 v8 so you arent crazy !

currently the quickest rwd series 2/3 3800 runs 7.9 @170 in a datsun pickup and the quickest stock block/rotating assembly fwd L67 has run 8.6 @159 (zzp)

 

[Brad Zeidler]

You're close to spelling it right. People always mix up the e and the i. Anyway, yes it's an 87 Shelby Charger. I will point out that all I have is a stock L67 with an F body T5 from a 97 3800 Camaro. It has a brand new replacement clutch but it can't hold it. The boost comes on and if I'm in 3rd gear or higher it starts slipping so definitely put in a better than stock clutch. The 3800 T5's are sort of a bastard child. It has the Ford bell to trans mounting flange and the input shaft is about 1" longer than the other V6&V8 T5's so swapping to the much better geared V8 T5 is a bit tricky. I'm still researching that one. Modifying the supercharger really wasn't too difficult, I still have my template to cut the end off and stick the 3" cast aluminum elbow into it to be welded. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3330131/1987-dodge-charger

 

[Alex77carr]

WOW!! You guys are freaking awesome. I am so thankfull for your guys advice ,and posotivity, it's taken alot of the guess work out of this project, and i'm so relived that im not the only one that has done this or had this idea.
Ill get some pictures posted as soon as possible.

If anyone has anything els feel free, every little bit helps.
Thank You -Alex Carr-

 

[murphinator]

off topic for a moment here but Brad I have the answer why people swap the "E" and "I" in your name - I should be the last one to make that mistake too:frown: people do the same thing with my first name Keith and I figured out why a while back... in schoo they hammer into your head I before e except after c which apparently doesnt apply to names

back on topic I have a friend looking to l67 an s10 and I have several good rwd candidates in my current batch of cars Brad what would you charge to do an m90 like yours I may want a couple of them done as may the originator of this thread

I have read of concerns in the l67 world of warping the sc case when welding the silencer ports closed , what you are doing is way more extensive than that but further away from the actual rotor pack area , your thoughts ? do you cool the case , jump around with where you are welding , etc...?

 

[Brad Zeidler]

I didn't do the actual welding of the aluminum. I left that to a professional. For what he charged me it wasn't worth it to do it myself. As long as I have all the pieces marked, indexed, and fitted to the way I want he'll probably only charge $50. He only charged me 20 but, Friend discount. I suppose to cut the housing and fit the elbow will take me a couple hours in my spare time, I dunno for me to get it ready and if you want me to make a throttle body plate that you can later mount to a 3" tube you can make yourself at a later date.... For the whole deal I think I can convert a housing for $200 if you send it with one of the Turbonetics 3" cast 90 degree elbow.

 

[Brad Zeidler]

You did mention your car already has a T5. What year is it and is the input shaft 14 spline(V6) or 26 spline(V8)? Hopefully it's from 88 or newer in order to be a World Class T5. I believe if you use the older V6 bell housing 84-92 with external hydraulic slave cylinder/fork type throwout bearing. This should work to bolt the V8 T5 up to the 3800 and still have proper pilot bearing/input shaft depth. I'm not totally sure about that yet. If you do get this project started let me know, I have a spare 3800 flywheel, you'll just have to get it resurfaced.

 

[Alex77carr]

You did mention your car already has a T5. What year is it and is the input shaft 14 spline(V6) or 26 spline(V8)? Hopefully it's from 88 or newer in order to be a World Class T5. I believe if you use the older V6 bell housing 84-92 with external hydraulic slave cylinder/fork type throwout bearing. This should work to bolt the V8 T5 up to the 3800 and still have proper pilot bearing/input shaft depth. I'm not totally sure about that yet. If you do get this project started let me know, I have a spare 3800 flywheel, you'll just have to get it resurfaced.


-------------------------------------I apologize ahead of time for my bad spelling

Yes the car dose have a T5 in it from a previes learning experance.
The transsmision is a non-world class that came out of an 87 s-10, 14 spline with an 3/4 inch spacer between the trany and the old style s-10 bellhousing. I tapped out the bell housing bolts to fit 1/2, grade 8 bolts.To my knoledge the starter is on the wrong side for this bellhousing. The high milage transsmission lasted about a year of me slaming gears at 6 grand, I just recently rebuilt it.

I think the trans will last for a good long time , as long as im not doing anything stupid:biggrin:, Mind you this is the daily driver project. i have a 77
corvette stingray project if i want to be stupid.

The project starts NOW, im doing my best to round up parts ASAP, the SBC gets pulled around the 20th. So yes the fly wheel is on THE LIST
how much you looking to get for the fly wheel? (im a broke collage student)
Thanks -Alex Carr-

 

[Brad Zeidler]

It's just sitting on the shelf, I suppose $20 and shipping. I had also seen somewhere before that they did make a bellhousing that had the starter opening on both sides for a V6, I'll have to see if I can find that part number again. Also, as far as figuring out the wiring harness. When it came time to do that for me I just sent it to Howell EFI. They cut it down,relabeled, wrapped with new loom for about $400. It wasn't worth the headache for me to try and save money to do that. I took one look at the schematics and said nooooo way.

 

[Alex77carr]

Bellhousing??

Like i said i have an old t5 that came out of an S-10. To the best of my knolage all the T5's have the same inputshaft length. I was looking at the motor the other day and was wondering, is it possible to just drill and tap some holes on the other side of the block for the starter? That way i could just go with a stock bellhousing from a camaro out of a junk yard, wouldnt have to mess with my battery cable, and wouldnt have to worry about the clutch hydrolic line interfering with the starter.

I havent gone to a machine shop in a long time, what do you guys think a decent one would charge to hone the cylenders, port and polish the heads, tap some new hols for the starter.

If you guys have any recomandations for some good machine shops , or dynos/ tuners any where close to Tyler TX, I am ALL EARS.

Thank You -Alex Carr-