1984 buick grand national ! help!

[lx100]

Hey everyone I just have a few questions. I am thinking about trading my 05 cadillac cts with 119,000 miles for a 1984 buick grand national with an 87 engine with 60,000 miles on it.. Im confused because I dont know if its just a regal turned into a buick grand national or if its a t-type and what are the differences. your help is highly appreciated .. also what are your takes on my trade? is it a good deal for me? my cts is worth about 8,000
. Here are some pictures of it... thanks

 

[Heisenberg]

First of all - by the looks of the interior, it does not resemble a true 1984 GN.
The thing that makes an 84 unique is what is called the Lear Siegler interiior, outfitted in leather and Brandon cloth trimmed seats, and many items being colored in what is called "Lt. Sand Grey" - but more beige like.
This car looks to have a more traditional 85/86/87 GN interior done up in the more typical Med Dark Grey / Palex cloth material.
The dash looks to be Md Dark Grey, not Charcoal (black) as was proper for a 84.
The steering wheel looks to be - should I say it?
I won't say a dime a dozen, but there is nothing all that special about a Med Dark Grey GN interior.
There is that cache about a 1984 GN interior.

Secondly, the only real way to tell if it was originally a GN is by looking at the SPID label, or doing a reconstruction of the window sticker using other tools.
There is nothing in a VIN that designates GN.
Only turbo charged Regal.
So - post a VIN and we can tell you.

Obviously - since it has a LC2 engine - it is not numbers matching.
And that's a plus - since apologies to my HA friends, but the 84 LM9 Hot Air engines are beasts to work on.

Also - even though it has a LC2 motor, you really don't know if it has the properly built trans behind it, either a BRF or a THM200R4 that is modified to BRF standards.

Your question is really one of value

What's an 05 CTS w/ 119K miles on it worth vs a cloned up 1984 Regal with LC2 engine.

The bible for pricing is from Manheim - referred to as MMR
This is only available for the Cadillac, not the Regal due to its age and uniqueness
My rough estimates are:

Cadillac MMR = $5,284 (That is not retail, but what a dealer can buy at auction)
Markups are in the range of $1500-$2000
So, assume maybe about $7K retail for the Caddy - if - it is in avg to better condition
You say $8K - you might be a tad high, but OK.

This car you are looking at I would value at about the same; give or take.
No matter how you slice it - it's a clone in some way shape or form, as it is clearly not factory original.
The value goes either up, down or sideways at that point forward.
Maybe more - if - the engine and trans swap was done professionally or correctly.
Since it requires a new engine harness and other things, and these engines are tempermental even when factory prepared - that's alot of ifs
The paint does looks nice (from afar in pictures) and the interior looks good
Maybe 7-8K, maybe more.

So - a wash - value wise

But two completely different animals.
One can be a daily driver - the other - I'm not so sure.

I'd have to see the Caddy.

 

[lx100]

the vin is 1g4ak4795eh594745

also here is the link for it that they put on craigslist.. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4239203632.html

i appreciate your help Heisenberg!

 

[Heisenberg]

Nothing in that ad changes my opinions.

Other than to add that I don't call Craigslist "CraztList" for nothing
Nicole "will be taking offers for this car starting @ $10,000 obo"
That's called eBay Nicole.
And it's nice to dream about $10K for your 1984 non-original GN - ain't happenin'!

And nice to see some people are still using Polaroids for taking their pictures.
Well done - not!

The two pictures of the paint look good.
Again - interior doesn't look bad to me. - For a regular Med Dark Grey GN style that is.
GNX Wheels are nice - although - not True 1984 Painted Vectors, but still nice

Proof in the pudding is in the eating.

In the other shitty underhood pic, it has what looks to be an aftermaket ATR style downpipe, so I'll assume the engine has "go fast" parts on it.
Good and bad
The good - those parts are expensive, so you can buy at dimes on the dollar.
The Bad- That means - usually, the car gets run - hard.
So caveat emptor my little friend.
Caveat emptor.

 

[Heisenberg]

the vin is 1g4ak4795eh594745

also here is the link for it that they put on craigslist.. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4239203632.html

i appreciate your help Heisenberg!

Better double check that VIN again.

Maybe other guys can help - but I don't think that is a correct Regal VIN

Let's start and stop with 1G4AK......
Should start with 1G4G......
The fourth character "G" meaning G body - not A body.

1

Manufacturing Country (USA)

G

Manfacturer (GM)

4

Division (1=Chevy, 2=Pontiac, 3=Oldsmobile, 4=Buick, 5=GMC, 6=Cadillac)

G

Series (G body)

 

[lx100]

1G4AK4795EH594745

 

[lx100]

I checked the vin out and it says
year: 1984
make: buick
model: regal
style/body: coupe
engine: 3.8 L

does that mean its not a grand national and its just a regal? that might be a dumb question but idk im new to these cars.

 

[Heisenberg]

I checked the vin out and it says
year: 1984
make: buick
model: regal
style/body: coupe
engine: 3.8 L

does that mean its not a grand national and its just a regal? that might be a dumb question but idk im new to these cars.

First of all - shut your mouth.
There is no such thing as "just a Regal"

I need to go back and look at my VIN decoder - because I don't see where you get that from.
My VIN decoder says what I wrote above.

You say you checked out the VIN..how so?

 

[lx100]

hahaha sorry.

heres a pic of the check i did. ..

 

[Heisenberg]

I stand corrected

Using the 86 & 87 VIN decoder

From: gnttype.org
http://www.gnttype.org/general/vin.html

All important 8th sequence character
9 = Engine Code (LM9 3.8L SFI Turbo
So far, so good - but who cares, the LM9 is long gone.
But at least we know it started life as a Turbocharged Regal
We 86 & 86 IC guys refer to our cars as VIN 7 cars

So, get a picture of the SPID label under the rear deck lid - commonly called a trunk deck lid
Let me guess - it's not there.....

 

[earlbrown]

Nicole seems to be dreaming a little.

 

[Heisenberg]

Tis the time of year Earl

 

[lx100]

so... what are your final thoughts?

 

[Heisenberg]

so... what are your final thoughts?

My final thoughts?
Caveat emptor
Buy low - sell high
Don't step on chalk lines
Beware of cross eyed women

Have it looked at by a well known TR community expert before buying
Period!
Or else Earl is going to give you a ration of crap when you come back and post your tale of woe like "well I bought this car thinking it was blah blah blah...and now I have all these problems blah blah blah"


I don't think it is $10K
You said trade.
I see that as probably pretty fair - if, if, if
Just remember - kid - right? - these cars are not to be relied upon as daily drivers
They see more jackstand time than asphalt time.
No offense on the kid part
I'm 55 years old and been tortured by these cars for 25 years so I'm bitter.

 

[lx100]

what will the SPID do? i just asked for it.... and also is this an Original 84 interior?

 

[Heisenberg]

what will the SPID do? i just asked for it.... and also is this an Original 84 interior?

Yes sir.
Isn't that a work of art?
Well - except for the passenger side missing escutsheon and pull strap and lower door panel...ughhh
Ain't no dime a dozen Med Dark Grey GN interior is it?

The SPID label will show you all the factory installed options
Like this

 

[Heisenberg]

By the way - that interior in your picture - if restored - is about $1500 or $2000 more than a standard GN knock off interior.
Which is why you see them put into 84's - sadly

I think the seat covers alone run about a grand or more
Not counting labor.

And there are the knuckleheads that just gotta have a 86 / 87 looking GN
The kind of people who would spray a WH1 all black cuz it's not cool enough....

 

[Heisenberg]

You get a SPID picture and I'll tell you exactly what it had - when new.

 

[lx100]

yah im diggin that interior way more. I found someone who in interested in a trading for my cts but he said the turbo starts smoking cuz it overheats. if I get a GN im just gonna coast and cruise. I had a 67 camaro sold that got a rx7 fd twin turbo ( got plenty of tickets) lol . I want a GN sooooo bad. and im not offended by the kid part but I am 21... I texted her asking for it but she hasnt responded. also if I use a GN as a daily and not abuse it and just coast will i get good gas mileage? ive read they get about 20 if you dont have a heavy foot

 

[Heisenberg]

yah im diggin that interior way more. I found someone who in interested in a trading for my cts but he said the turbo starts smoking cuz it overheats. if I get a GN im just gonna coast and cruise. I had a 67 camaro sold that got a rx7 fd twin turbo ( got plenty of tickets) lol . I want a GN sooooo bad. and im not offended by the kid part but I am 21... I texted her asking for it but she hasnt responded. also if I use a GN as a daily and not abuse it and just coast will i get good gas mileage? ive read they get about 20 if you dont have a heavy foot

You really need to do stand up mike night next time at the comedy club.
That's funny.
A 21 year old who is going to "just coast around" in a hopped up GN.
Yeah - right.
But true enough - the gas mileage is pretty decent.
Actually quite good.
Well - when you're not getting into it - which is never - or when it is up on jackstands - which is often.

Again - I tell you.
Think what you will - but relying on these cars as DDs is dicey.
Not that there aren't alot of guys that do, but I'm telling you - it's always something with these cars.
They really are a second car, a toy if you will.
And who the hell wants to subject them to the daily grind of the nutcases on the road, the gravel trucks, potholes, stop n go traffic, rain, sleet, snow, etc etc
Yeah - I see, you're in Cali, but still.
No.
Not a DD