2 problems one is a no start, the other is I need the correct fuel rail gauge mounting adapter size please

[87WE4!!]

Hi,
First off I do apologize. I can almost guarantee this topic has been covered already on this forum. I did a search but I’m between laptop computers and all I have is my iPhone and it’s a little confusing so I’m sorry I’m advance for my question.
My WE4 isn’t running after I just put a ton of work and new parts into it. (I had it stored in my sister’s garage for 21 years and I didn’t prep it for storage. But I replaced everything from the brand new tank all the way to the fuel rail. With a genuine Walbro 255 Hotwired pump. And a brand new tank,sender, and new high pressure fuel soft lines from the tank to the hard line. Along with a new fuel filter and I blew out all the stock hard feed and return lines. And the ECU because the fuel pump signal from the Ecu was dead.
So long story short I changed all the fluids, the oil pump gears and packed them with petroleum jelly ,the powermaster because it was dead, and I cleaned out everything as far as the intercooler and intake lines. And after priming the oil pump the engine started right up. I ran it for about 30 minutes till I realized that the alternator was not charging because I believe the volts lamp is burned out on the dashboard so I shut it off. The motor ran perfectly no noise no misfire at all. Now the whole time the engine was running the gas tank wasn’t mounted up on the car. I wanted it on the floor so I could see if anything was leaking from my new hoses from the tank sender to the hard lines. After I determined that the engine survived the 21 year storage I focused me attention on other things and I bolted the fuel tank in place (not sure but I may have kinked one of those fuel soft lines). For the past month I’ve been working on the brake powermaster replacement and fixing up my interior and other odds and ends.
Well anyway I had my stock rims powder coated black and bought some new tires. So I wanted to move my car away from the wall on my garage and all it did was crank with no start. I can hear the primer pump, I can hear the powermaster motor prime for a second after pumping the brakes 30 times so it’s all working.
I took the up pipe off and sprayed some brake cleaner (all I had on hand) in the throttle body and it started right up and ran till the brake fluid burned away. I did jump the fuel pump and let the pump run for about 30 seconds to get fuel to the rail. And I quickly tried to start it and nothing.
So I have 2 questions.
1) I have a liquid filled fuel injection small fuel rail pressure gauge. But I don’t have the adapter to install it. Now I’m not looking for anything fancy. If anyone can tell me the correct size adapter (I think that’s what it’s cslled) to install right on the fuel rail. I have the tool to remove the Schrader valve I just need to know what to buy. I just want the copper one. I don’t need the AN fitting. I really need to know what fuel pressure I’m dealing with at the rail. I thought for sure me injectors would be shot but they ohm out within spec and like I said the engine ran beautifully for 30 minutes about a month ago.
2) if anyone can tell me what’s wrong with the car I would really appreciate it. I think it’s also important to tell you that the check engine light stays on the whole time now. A month ago it would blink a few times and the light would go off. Unfortunately I spent a ton of money this month on new seat covers for this car so I can’t afford to buy a scanmaster till the end of September. And I really don’t want to remove the scanmaster from my other Grand National because it’s installed and setup for that car and I don’t wanna disturb anything with my other car especially because I’m running alky in my other car. So I don’t wanna pull mods off that car. So if anyone can throw me some ideas of what you think it is I would greatly appreciate it. It’s bone stock with the exception of AEM wideband AEM oil pressure, and AEM boost gauge.

Thank you all for reading this and may God bless everyone and your families.
Have a blessed day!!!

 

[spross86]

Hi,
First off I do apologize. I can almost guarantee this topic has been covered already on this forum. I did a search but I’m between laptop computers and all I have is my iPhone and it’s a little confusing so I’m sorry I’m advance for my question.
My WE4 isn’t running after I just put a ton of work and new parts into it. (I had it stored in my sister’s garage for 21 years and I didn’t prep it for storage. But I replaced everything from the brand new tank all the way to the fuel rail. With a genuine Walbro 255 Hotwired pump. And a brand new tank,sender, and new high pressure fuel soft lines from the tank to the hard line. Along with a new fuel filter and I blew out all the stock hard feed and return lines. And the ECU because the fuel pump signal from the Ecu was dead.
So long story short I changed all the fluids, the oil pump gears and packed them with petroleum jelly ,the powermaster because it was dead, and I cleaned out everything as far as the intercooler and intake lines. And after priming the oil pump the engine started right up. I ran it for about 30 minutes till I realized that the alternator was not charging because I believe the volts lamp is burned out on the dashboard so I shut it off. The motor ran perfectly no noise no misfire at all. Now the whole time the engine was running the gas tank wasn’t mounted up on the car. I wanted it on the floor so I could see if anything was leaking from my new hoses from the tank sender to the hard lines. After I determined that the engine survived the 21 year storage I focused me attention on other things and I bolted the fuel tank in place (not sure but I may have kinked one of those fuel soft lines). For the past month I’ve been working on the brake powermaster replacement and fixing up my interior and other odds and ends.
Well anyway I had my stock rims powder coated black and bought some new tires. So I wanted to move my car away from the wall on my garage and all it did was crank with no start. I can hear the primer pump, I can hear the powermaster motor prime for a second after pumping the brakes 30 times so it’s all working.
I took the up pipe off and sprayed some brake cleaner (all I had on hand) in the throttle body and it started right up and ran till the brake fluid burned away. I did jump the fuel pump and let the pump run for about 30 seconds to get fuel to the rail. And I quickly tried to start it and nothing.
So I have 2 questions.
1) I have a liquid filled fuel injection small fuel rail pressure gauge. But I don’t have the adapter to install it. Now I’m not looking for anything fancy. If anyone can tell me the correct size adapter (I think that’s what it’s cslled) to install right on the fuel rail. I have the tool to remove the Schrader valve I just need to know what to buy. I just want the copper one. I don’t need the AN fitting. I really need to know what fuel pressure I’m dealing with at the rail. I thought for sure me injectors would be shot but they ohm out within spec and like I said the engine ran beautifully for 30 minutes about a month ago.
2) if anyone can tell me what’s wrong with the car I would really appreciate it. I think it’s also important to tell you that the check engine light stays on the whole time now. A month ago it would blink a few times and the light would go off. Unfortunately I spent a ton of money this month on new seat covers for this car so I can’t afford to buy a scanmaster till the end of September. And I really don’t want to remove the scanmaster from my other Grand National because it’s installed and setup for that car and I don’t wanna disturb anything with my other car especially because I’m running alky in my other car. So I don’t wanna pull mods off that car. So if anyone can throw me some ideas of what you think it is I would greatly appreciate it. It’s bone stock with the exception of AEM wideband AEM oil pressure, and AEM boost gauge.

Thank you all for reading this and may God bless everyone and your families.
Have a blessed day!!!

You can just pickup a fuel pressure test gage from advanced auto and check it at the Schrader valve. You can install a permanent one later.

 

[spross86]

Hi,
First off I do apologize. I can almost guarantee this topic has been covered already on this forum. I did a search but I’m between laptop computers and all I have is my iPhone and it’s a little confusing so I’m sorry I’m advance for my question.
My WE4 isn’t running after I just put a ton of work and new parts into it. (I had it stored in my sister’s garage for 21 years and I didn’t prep it for storage. But I replaced everything from the brand new tank all the way to the fuel rail. With a genuine Walbro 255 Hotwired pump. And a brand new tank,sender, and new high pressure fuel soft lines from the tank to the hard line. Along with a new fuel filter and I blew out all the stock hard feed and return lines. And the ECU because the fuel pump signal from the Ecu was dead.
So long story short I changed all the fluids, the oil pump gears and packed them with petroleum jelly ,the powermaster because it was dead, and I cleaned out everything as far as the intercooler and intake lines. And after priming the oil pump the engine started right up. I ran it for about 30 minutes till I realized that the alternator was not charging because I believe the volts lamp is burned out on the dashboard so I shut it off. The motor ran perfectly no noise no misfire at all. Now the whole time the engine was running the gas tank wasn’t mounted up on the car. I wanted it on the floor so I could see if anything was leaking from my new hoses from the tank sender to the hard lines. After I determined that the engine survived the 21 year storage I focused me attention on other things and I bolted the fuel tank in place (not sure but I may have kinked one of those fuel soft lines). For the past month I’ve been working on the brake powermaster replacement and fixing up my interior and other odds and ends.
Well anyway I had my stock rims powder coated black and bought some new tires. So I wanted to move my car away from the wall on my garage and all it did was crank with no start. I can hear the primer pump, I can hear the powermaster motor prime for a second after pumping the brakes 30 times so it’s all working.
I took the up pipe off and sprayed some brake cleaner (all I had on hand) in the throttle body and it started right up and ran till the brake fluid burned away. I did jump the fuel pump and let the pump run for about 30 seconds to get fuel to the rail. And I quickly tried to start it and nothing.
So I have 2 questions.
1) I have a liquid filled fuel injection small fuel rail pressure gauge. But I don’t have the adapter to install it. Now I’m not looking for anything fancy. If anyone can tell me the correct size adapter (I think that’s what it’s cslled) to install right on the fuel rail. I have the tool to remove the Schrader valve I just need to know what to buy. I just want the copper one. I don’t need the AN fitting. I really need to know what fuel pressure I’m dealing with at the rail. I thought for sure me injectors would be shot but they ohm out within spec and like I said the engine ran beautifully for 30 minutes about a month ago.
2) if anyone can tell me what’s wrong with the car I would really appreciate it. I think it’s also important to tell you that the check engine light stays on the whole time now. A month ago it would blink a few times and the light would go off. Unfortunately I spent a ton of money this month on new seat covers for this car so I can’t afford to buy a scanmaster till the end of September. And I really don’t want to remove the scanmaster from my other Grand National because it’s installed and setup for that car and I don’t wanna disturb anything with my other car especially because I’m running alky in my other car. So I don’t wanna pull mods off that car. So if anyone can throw me some ideas of what you think it is I would greatly appreciate it. It’s bone stock with the exception of AEM wideband AEM oil pressure, and AEM boost gauge.

Thank you all for reading this and may God bless everyone and your families.
Have a blessed day!!!

Also remove the Schrader valve hook a hose to the end with a zip tie and run it to a catch can turn key on check to see if you have any fuel

 

[dank GN]

Okay the 3.8 motor needs 2 sensors to start and continue to run and those are the cam sensor and the crank sensor. Attached is a great website that will walk you through a no start problem http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/troubshootgeneral.htm

 

[Chuck Leeper]

so I can’t afford to buy a scanmaster till the end of September.

@@@

 

[87WE4!!]

Okay the 3.8 motor needs 2 sensors to start and continue to run and those are the cam sensor and the crank sensor. Attached is a great website that will walk you through a no start problem http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/troubshootgeneral.htm

Ok I’m a certified Suzuki motorcycle mechanic. I have a question. In the traditional Suzuki gsxr world the cam sensor is responsible for the signal to the Ecu that’s responsible for sending ground to the fuel injectors according to the position and speed of the cams. As well as the crank position sensor is responsible for the signal to the Ecu to determine when the spark happens. In the motorcycle world when the cam sensor or circuit to the Ecu dies so dies the signal to fire the fuel injectors. And I know I have spark.
I’m only asking because I would like to rule out the crank position sensor since I have a spark. But then again this is the car world and not the motorcycle world so if you tell me my theory is wrong then I will be happy to go ahead and change the crank sensor (it’s way cheaper then the cam sensor). Plus the car sat for 21 years so it’s just a matter of time before the crank sensor goes. Does anyone know where I can kind a working used cam sensor? I remember a few years ago I replaced one on my other GN and I was able to find a used one complete with the cap for $100 with the light up position tool. But I know those days are over. Lol

But you guys are the experts so whatever y’all say, that’s the way I’ll go.

Thanks again

 

[Gary Durden]

Post an ad in the "Parts Wanted" section and see what pops up.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

If you have spark at the plugs then your not getting fuel. How did you determine you have spark? Open the valve a little and see fuel sprays out. Easy.

 

[RUQWKNF]

If you have spark, the crank sensor is good to go.
Fuel rail tap is a -4an, remove the shradder valve and any -4an fitting will work. Just don't forget to reinstall the shradder when you take the fp gauge off.

Check these 3 fuses, FP/INJ 15 amp fuse, the ECM-SOL 10 amp fuse, the ECM-INJ 10 amp fuse. Also, is the orange wire behind the battery connected? That's the ECM power wire.

http://www.installationinstructions.com/FYI/fusepanels.pdf

Cam sensor: Pop the cap and inspect the magnet, it could be cracked and or broken, not giving a signal. Other than the magnet in the cap and the reluctor ring, the internals typically don't fail. The bearings just wear out. However, if the philips head screw come loose, the cam sensor reluctor ring stops spinning. No signal. Remember when putting the cap back on, that there is a bump on the body of the cam sensor and an alignment notch in the plastic cap. It only attaches one way.

Check your ground wires behind the passengers side cylinder head, as well as the +12v fuseable links, particularly the one that runs down to the starter. Do you have fuel pressure?

You can rent and or buy a fuel injector noid light tester kit from Autozone. Find the correct noid light that fits GM Bosch fuel injectors and see if the light lights up when you are cranking. If not, you have narrowed down the issue.
And lastly, if the MAF sensor is kaput, it won't start, but those conditions are more of a sputtering/popping no start.
These are just a few things to check.
My bet is either no fuel pressure or injector/ecm related.

As far as finding a used cam sensor, you might call Brian at G-Body parts and see if he has any good condition ones he'd sell.
Hope some of this helps.

-Patrick-

 

[salvageV6]

Crank and Cam sensors can last well over 30 years if factory original or early factory replacement parts, inspect and test but don't assume defective without looking.

If the check engine light is on then pull the codes stored with the paper clip method.

http://www.gnttype.org/maint/malf.html

 

[87WE4!!]

Thanks guys and ladies for all your help.
I got it running again. It turned out that when I replaced the gas tank, pump, and sender because I let the car sit with gas in it for 21+ years (I know I did a very irresponsible thing but I wasn’t in my right mind) the gas and everything inside the tank was this black and caked on gunk. So anyway I’m rambling again, it turns out that while replacing everything with the exception of the hard lines that I blew out with compressed air. When I replaced the 3 soft lines coming from the fuel tank sending unit I mistakenly routed the fuel feed line in a way that it got kinked when I tightened down the tank so it was occluing the flow of fuel from the tank to the fuel rail. Basically as soon as I dropped the fuel tank and unkinked the fuel feed line the car started right up. That was all I did on the car today. After running the car inside gave me a headache so I figured ide figure out how to route those lines tomorrow afternoon. See I didn’t buy the pre shaped lines from the dealer because I didn’t want to spend the money when I could just buy high pressure fuel injection hose from advance auto parts for $8 a foot.
But as always I want to thank you all for helping me. You guys have always been a great help to me.

Everyone have a blessed holiday weekend and please be safe this weekend. I’m just home doing nothing and bored out of my mind lol.

 

[87WE4!!]

If you have spark at the plugs then your not getting fuel. How did you determine you have spark? Open the valve a little and see fuel sprays out. Easy.

I’m sorry for not answering your question I didn’t see it till now.
I used an old spark plug and crank the engine and had a nice blue spark in all 6 cylinders

But I figured out the problem. I installed the new fuel tank incorrectly kinking the fuel feed line and it was occluding fuel from the rail. It’s running like a top now.

Now I’m not sure what I should start on first. The body which has absolutely no rust but I want a new paint job.
Or
The complete interior restoration. I bought all new seat covers, rug, headliner, visors, and a re wrapped steering wheel. Even tho I could probably sell my seat covers I really wanted this to be a museum quality WE4 show car. With all my original documents from the dealer like the window sticker, bill of sake, copy of the original title in my name all in frames at the car show. Hell I even went as far as to locate and but 4 original factory Goodyear Eagle GT tires dated 4th week of 1987 to use only at car shows. And the prior owner took damn good care of them because there isn’t s single soft spot or sign of dry rot. And the tread has about 80-85% life left. He bought larger tires about a month after he bought his GN. So things are going well with my restoration. And I owe a lot to you guys/ladies for all of your help. Y’all always answer my question. I just hope one day I can repay the favors back to y’all.

God bless all of you and please be careful on this holiday weekend.