200-4r woes (long)

[ROPO355]

Every year I've had to rebuild my trans, some of my mistakes, some bad guidance. First time I bought a TCI kit, and TCI shift kit, with a hardened stator support, and upgraded sunshell, larger pressure valves. The frictions and steels didn't look to bad, except lo/reverse. When I put it together my guidance coudn't find clutch clearance specs, and told me It worked before, should work now, so we left them like they came. It shift well, not real harsh 1-2., a little harsh at wot, except for the common 2-3 flare, shifted good up at the track, I like to shift manually and except for the flare I was happy. After reading in here about the problem, I figured to take it apart, dual feed it. The lo/reverse clutch pack clearance was wide .125"+, I asked and was told by the board that wouldn't be a problem. Chris's book and his shift kit, and a forward drum, it went together real nice. Pressures where all about 250ish with full tv pressure. Reverse was sluggish, had to rev abit to get it to back up, drove around town shifted nice, I'm running the stiff springs in the accumulators. Went to the track, it shifted from 1-2 at 4500 all by it self with the shifter in low, but every thing else worked ok. Checked the shift linkage it's good. I figured I try the old shift kit in it this year and try for the best of both, when I drained the fluid it's very dark, but red and it doesn't smell burned. Get it back together with new fluid, no reverse and now it creeps forward in reverse, I figure I lost lo/reverse again, this was while it was on stands. Checked pressures 150ish, doesn't seem like it down shifts to 1st now. I'm going to try Chris's shift kit before I take it out. This is a 87 tranny out of Gran National, BQF code I think. My biggest question, With dirty fluid do you think that crud be causing my low pressure problems, crud in the pressure regulating valves. evey time I drop it on the ground it has good pressure, next spring it doesn't? This is in a 67 Camaro with 400hp sb on a good day. Any thoughts, comments? I'm not blaming Chris, he didnt build it, I did, I'm no tranny guy , but i've built plenty of engines, and thousands of Diesel fuel pumps which have the tightest clearences of any thing I've seen, Millonths of an inch. Thing that gets me the most is the shifting, 1-2 with out moving the lever out of manual 1st. Ron

 

[Alky V6]

What other parts were put into the unit other than the rebuild kit and the other parts you mentioned?

 

[ROPO355]

The pin to extend the band pin length, I'm thinking the crud is from lo/reverse clutch pack. I'm thinking to take it apart, clean it real good, set the clutch packs. I'll probably set the low/reverse clutch pack to about .080"

 

[quickt]

Every year I've had to rebuild my trans, some of my mistakes, some bad guidance. First time I bought a TCI kit, and TCI shift kit, with a hardened stator support, and upgraded sunshell, larger pressure valves. The frictions and steels didn't look to bad, except lo/reverse. When I put it together my guidance coudn't find clutch clearance specs, and told me It worked before, should work now, so we left them like they came. It shift well, not real harsh 1-2., a little harsh at wot, except for the common 2-3 flare, shifted good up at the track, I like to shift manually and except for the flare I was happy. After reading in here about the problem, I figured to take it apart, dual feed it. The lo/reverse clutch pack clearance was wide .125"+, I asked and was told by the board that wouldn't be a problem. Chris's book and his shift kit, and a forward drum, it went together real nice. Pressures where all about 250ish with full tv pressure. Reverse was sluggish, had to rev abit to get it to back up, drove around town shifted nice, I'm running the stiff springs in the accumulators. Went to the track, it shifted from 1-2 at 4500 all by it self with the shifter in low, but every thing else worked ok. Checked the shift linkage it's good. I figured I try the old shift kit in it this year and try for the best of both, when I drained the fluid it's very dark, but red and it doesn't smell burned. Get it back together with new fluid, no reverse and now it creeps forward in reverse, I figure I lost lo/reverse again, this was while it was on stands. Checked pressures 150ish, doesn't seem like it down shifts to 1st now. I'm going to try Chris's shift kit before I take it out. This is a 87 tranny out of Gran National, BQF code I think. My biggest question, With dirty fluid do you think that crud be causing my low pressure problems, crud in the pressure regulating valves. evey time I drop it on the ground it has good pressure, next spring it doesn't? This is in a 67 Camaro with 400hp sb on a good day. Any thoughts, comments? I'm not blaming Chris, he didnt build it, I did, I'm no tranny guy , but i've built plenty of engines, and thousands of Diesel fuel pumps which have the tightest clearences of any thing I've seen, Millonths of an inch. Thing that gets me the most is the shifting, 1-2 with out moving the lever out of manual 1st. Ron

You drill the 1/8 hole in the direct drum? BQ with the 1-2 from manual 1st I have never seen that one.

 

[ROPO355]

Yes I did, if it said to do it in Chris's book I did it. If there is a trans that is going to do something that no ones seen it would be this one. Ron

 

[Alky V6]

With the short parts list that you explained I have to assume that you missed some important wear points. The 2-3 shift flare that you described is a strong clue that supports that. First off, if there is debris in the pan, the unit must come out to be disassembled, inspected for the cause, and cleaned out.

1/8" hole in the drum?

 

[ROPO355]

After I overhauled last winter, the 2-3 flare went away. I picked up the 1-2 shift when it was in manual low, and a sluggish reverse. This was a very low mileage (10,000) tranny out of a gm test mule, and it show that it had been changed early 85 car, late 86 date code trans the bushings looked great. every time it has been apart I've done a good inspection, and put in a new kit. Ron

 

[Alky V6]

The point is, you didn't find the cause of the 2-3 shift flare before dual feeding. The wear is probably still in the trans. Dual feeding can be a good way to mask the main problem.

You need to remove the trans, and inspect for wear points more carefully. You're obviously on a learning curve. Just be more careful this time around. Once you have it apart I'll help you with the wear points.

As far as the 1-2 shift in manual low, that is a wierd one.

 

[quickt]

Yes I did, if it said to do it in Chris's book I did it. If there is a trans that is going to do something that no ones seen it would be this one. Ron

I should have said 1/16 hole. This has never worked for me. Reverse delay and smoked 3rd clutches has always been my result. I guess some have had luck with it.

 

[Alky V6]

I should have said 1/16 hole. This has never worked for me. Reverse delay and smoked 3rd clutches has always been my result. I guess some have had luck with it.

I've become a firm believer in drilling the 1/16" hole in the THM400 direct drum, but I've never had the circumstance of having to do it to a 200-4R drum. I suppose if the engine reved high enough it might be necessary.

 

[ROPO355]

update

I took my tranny out and got it apart today, so I thought I'd give everyone any update. It actually looked pretty good, the band had a bit of wear on it and conversely the drum had some light scoring, that explains the fluid discoloration. In Chris's book he had a procedure to adjust the band, evidently I screwed that up. I'm going to clean up real good, inspect everything real good, throw in some new parts, and recheck my assembly steps. I hope the crud was causing the shifting problems.

 

[overkillphil]

Where does one purchase Chris's book? I checked the CK site but was unsucessful.
Are they available through this site?

 

[chris718]

www.CKPerformance.com phone # to order is 631 218 1989

 

[overkillphil]

Thanks Chris! I should have thought of the old fashioned and simple way...the telephone! :redface: