200R4 vs TH400

[gnxtc2]

Eric Schertz built my 200s. They never skipped a beat but they needed yearly re-freshening. I was sick and tired of taking out the trans every season.

I switched over to a 400 with a PTC :biggrin: for the new motor.

The difference between the 400 and 200 is the clutch surface area. The 400 has way more area compared to the 200.

Yea, the 200 will survive 9's but how often does it need attention.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[MAP]

Grumpy,

Sorry - you're building houses has far less to do with designing parts for automotive assemblies than mine does. Do your design your houses with DFLSS methodologies? Do your houses meet QS9000 standards? Do the parts you use needs to meet mil-spec and ASTM standards? Do you design houses that are sold to GM? Anyway, we're entrenched in our positions and I see there's no budging you. Oh well - I won't lose any sleep over it.

But back to the issues at hand:

You say I would need to "believe in the tooth fairy" in order to expect that the aftermarket performance industry would stand behind their products as the OEMer's have come to do. And I say that it's equivalent to a belief in the tooth fairy for the aftermarket performance industry NOT to stand behind their products as they should and think they can persist as viable business entities.

As I said before, that's one of many reasons why the aftermarket industry is shrinking.

In a sense, and kind of ironically, I suspect you and I actually have more in common in our opinions than our recent posts might have suggested.

Frankly, if it were a given that anything I'd buy from the aftermarket - and this certainly includes trannies - is "gonna break," and with the implication that it's "gonna break" more than once over the life of the car, then I'd be a fool to buy such parts. And I won't. And I don't.

And so, instead of dumping my dollars on unproven aftermarket "high performance" parts, I increasingly go to the OEM which, even if it doesn't do a perfect job of quality control, at least does a far, far better job than the majority of the aftermarket.

Aftermarket builders reading here: I know that not all of you fall under this pessimistic characterization - thank heavens too, because quite seriously, you're our hope. But to the rest: it's 2008 - wake up and smell the methyl-ethyl-ketone: selling performance parts isn't just sourcing expensive parts and chrome-plating them.

And about reliable trannies: it's not just good parts, and it's not just good assembly practices, and it's not just good quality control, but it's generous helpings of all three. The chain fails if any link is weak. Grumpy - take notes.

Best,
MAP

 

[Grumpy]

Grumpy,

Sorry - you're building houses has far less to do with designing parts for automotive assemblies than mine does. Do your design your houses with DFLSS methodologies? Do your houses meet QS9000 standards? Do the parts you use needs to meet mil-spec and ASTM standards? Do you design houses that are sold to GM? Anyway, we're entrenched in our positions and I see there's no budging you. Oh well - I won't lose any sleep over it.


Best,
MAP

My houses make me pretty good $$$ so I can play and not keep figuring the wheel is round

 

[Grumpy]

Grumpy,
And about reliable trannies: it's not just good parts, and it's not just good assembly practices, and it's not just good quality control, but it's generous helpings of all three. The chain fails if any link is weak. Grumpy - take notes.

Best,
MAP

Damm we agree here to ... Lets move on

 

[norbs]

OR maybe ya don't ohhh ummm 400's never burn up OR break either Really depends on the power output to ... sooo like I said.. whatever floats your boat !! It's your dime

Anything can burn up in time, even the GV are known to fail. THis set up is 69lbs heavier than a 2004r also, but unless Melissa is coming to take my tranny out for me, I'm sticking with what i have.

 

[Grumpy]

Anything can burn up in time, even the GV are known to fail. THis set up is 69lbs heavier than a 2004r also, but unless Melissa is coming to take my tranny out for me, I'm sticking with what i have.

ummmmm why would Melissa come up and take your tranny ?? She has had hers in for a year.. we are not taking it out till we have to .. Lots of fast runs at the strip and a lot of street miles . We are curious to see how its holding up BUT not curious enuff to take a great running tranny out . so bottom line like I said .. your car and your $$$ :wink:

 

[86george]

200 4r vs th400 Th400 is much stronger as used in trucks and mottorhomes. 200 4r intended for lighter cars. Your choise. Learn to rebuild your own. Its not rocket science. Save some money and know who to blame when you break it. It works for me. I've broke a few and rebuilt a few.

 

[8AV8]

My houses make me pretty good $$$ so I can play and not keep figuring the wheel is round

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Grumpy]

Learn to rebuild your own. Its not rocket science. Save some money and know who to blame when you break it. It works for me. I've broke a few and rebuilt a few.

I call that the "fun" factor It's part of the game :biggrin:

 

[REAPER231]

When my 2004r breaks switching over to a th350 race built with a pats 3200 converter and dont have to worry about getting a new drive shaft made bolts right up wih th350 crossmember . COST ME ABOUT $1100 FOR EVERYTHING . :smile:

 

[boostingbuick]

Maybe should call CK and tell him to stop making good parts for the 200 if the only thing we should do is put in a 400. We are not trying to tell everyone to only run a 200, but I also think I have achieved more getting to the level of power with one. I mean, Instead of a engine girdle and gn1-r heads, I should just put in small block and make reliable horsepower. That's how some of us feel. We want to try with what we have in the car.

 

[Turbo1dr]

Thumbs up for the 200-4R!

I bought my first GN in 1993 with 44,229 miles on it. At 108,000 miles the front pump quit. I had the whole thing rebuilt and it's still in the car today with almost 90,000 miles on the rebuild. This car wasn't that fast though...7.50's at 92mph in the 8th. Almost 200,000 miles with one tranny rebuild...I call that a good transmission.

In my Malibu, I have always had a 200-4R. It survived 8 years behind my engine. It has been a best of 107mph in the 8th mile and countless WOT runs on the street. It's never broke other than the governer spring popping out a couple of times. I had it rebuilt back in 1998 and in 2006 I had it freshened up again even though it was still working perfect. I think I had less than $350 in my first rebuild back in 1998. That's a damn good price for the service it's provided through those 8 years.

One thing I think has saved me from breaking it is I had fairly soft shifts under light throttle and a slight "slide" when shifting at WOT. It never had a hard jerk when upshifting which I think is what causes all the broken 200-4R's.


After I had it rebuilt in 2006, I have firm light throttle upshifts and very hard WOT upshifts. It's still working fine today with my combination listed in my sig. So, I can say that I have had EXTREMELY good luck with the 200-4R! Neither time was the transmission prefessionally rebuilt by "big name" vendors. I have them done by a guy that works in his back yard garage.

 

[yullose]

After seeing all the bull$hit a buddy of mine went thru trying to get a "professionally built" 200R4 to work, I'd never dream of using one in a Turbo Buick.

The whole Summer he spent dicking around with his trans, pulling it out, making phone calls, shipping it back n forth, swapping valve bodies, etc... I was enjoying my TH400 equipped GN for half the cost and 1/10th the aggrevation.

There is just NO WAY a 200R4 will EVER be as strong as a TH400. That is just plain fact.

After running mine for a year with a reverse pattern and a transbrake, I would never dream of running anything but a TH400... unless you are only running 13's... or don't mind gambling with the 200R4.

 

[Grumpy]

guess it depends on the "professional" that built it .. Melissa is goin on her second year with hers and it had lots of runs AND street miles Now is it as strong as a 400 ??? I don't think so BUT the tranny is taking whatever she throws at it oh ..she doesn't run 13s

 

[gnxtc2]

guess it depends on the "professional" that built it .. Melissa is goin on her second year with hers and it had lots of runs AND street miles Now is it as strong as a 400 ??? I don't think so BUT the tranny is taking whatever she throws at it oh ..she doesn't run 13s

Leave Grumpy alone.......he's old and you can't change old people's minds, they're way of thinking is set in stone

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Grumpy]

Leave Grumpy alone.......he's old and you can't change old people's minds, they're way of thinking is set in stone

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

you would think most people would get my point Why do ya think we just ran 11s for years ?? hmmmm.... OMG it was from 87 on till a few years ago from what I can remember!! Talk about old age ??? We watched wayyyy to many with a lot of "stuff" go 12s/13s
Bottom line with my experience Ill leave the 400's for the race cars .. Crappy old 200s for Race/Street :biggrin: ok lets put this thread to sleep.. So anyone doing their new "own" Alky system's :wink:

 

[YouLikeThat]

What the price on a full race built 200 with a real brake?