200R4s from Bowtie Overdrives?

[BlackMetal]

Slowly starting to do some research on a built-up trans for my car, trying to determine the best bang for my buck.

Don't get me wrong I'd be more than happy to make my purchase with a supporting vendor for our Buick Community, but I'm curious about what is being offered from this other site, Bowtie Overdrives. They seem like a pretty common name in transmissions outside of the Buick circle (Corvette, Monte Carlo, etc)

So... just like our supporting vendors, they sell different stages of 200R4 builds, with the stage 3 saying it can handle over 450hp/450tq, but at only $1500. It looks like they address the input shaft and drum concerns that you start to worry about at that power level.

I know both CKPerformance and PTS post in here from time to time, so what would you say their level 3 trans is lacking, considering the fact that some of YOUR extreme duty transmissions start to get into the $2-3k range, while theirs is $1500. The only glaring difference I can see is that they don't offer the numerous billet internal parts, is that what results in the price difference? It appears they strictly address the parts that you would most likely expect to fail and leave it at that.

What about their claim of handling those power levels? Do you feel they have indeed addressed all of the weak links in the trans that you would start to worry about around 500hp, or does their package leave something to be desired?

I have no problem spending money if I can justify it, so feel free to tell me what this $1500 trans WOULDN'T do for me. Link here...

Bowtie Overdrives Level 3

(a) What is the reason behind the price difference between a built trans from Bowtie and CK/PTS that each claim to handle the same amount of power?
(b) Do you feel the level 3 from Bowtie truly can withstand the advertised HP/TQ?

Let's avoid the cliches like "you get what you pay for" and truly address the differences here, in terms of specific parts/components, etc.

 

[DR BOOST]

if u live in the chicago area, there is no reason not to go to jimmy's.

 

[broke1]

Ill bet there top of the line build without hard parts would be like a stock rebuild from CK,PTS,Janis,Lonnie Diers,or board member brian.Your comparing apples(PTS,CK,etc,etc) to sour oranges(monster,bowtie,etc)

Not just anyone can build a 2004r that will last behind a heavy car with alot of tq like the GN's.

 

[jakeshoe]

AFAIK BTO does NOT use any type of forward drum with a billet shaft.
This is a $400 component minimum and probably more than makes up for any price difference.
At 450 HP/TQ, I would consider the drum a mandatory item.

My guess is BTO heat treats the stock drum. How reliable that is depends on how much abuse it saw before it was heat treated and how good the original material was anyway.

There are ways to make the stock drum even better, and probably OK for 400-450 HP but I doubt BTO is doing it.

Their servo is probably an OK piece. I called them and asked the apply diameter and they couldn't really answer, it was "about 2 3/4"" is what I was told.

Once you get into the need for billet parts, the cost of a 200-4R goes up greatly. You can spend $1000+ on just the billet parts, not including any normal rebuild parts.

 

[BlackMetal]

Not just anyone can build a 2004r that will last behind a heavy car with alot of tq like the GN's.

I understand that, which is why I pointed out that these guys are popular with other car communities and a lot of their transmissions are being dropped behind high HP Corvettes etc. I wouldn't go to Johnny-B's Hole-in-the-wall and expect a good trans but it seems like Bowtie is pretty popular.

And yes I also know about Jimmy in Mundelein and am still considering him as part of this whole equation but not sure how I would be able to leave my car with him even if it is only 1 or 2 days. Plus I'd enjoy doing at least part of the work myself and one of the journeymen I work with used to have a T-Type and could give me a hand with it, so I figured why pay someone else's labor when I could swap it myself. But like I said I'm only a day or two into this thought process and do still plan to see what Jimmy could do for me.

 

[DR BOOST]

i have left my car with jimmy and trust him 100%. also, you can take the unit out yourself and have him build it for you.

 

[Blazer406]

Why risk it....

No need to reinvent the wheel IMHO...

Get it from someone reputable here.... there is no better advertising than satisfied customers...... you do some looking... you will find all the proof you need for a good tranny builder.

Lee Thompson is close to indy I think.... he builds a few turbo buick 2004R's..... he has one behind his 10.0 sec T-Type.....@ 140 mph....

CK performance... Brian Hoffer..... Lonnie Diers..... All build excellent trannys.

IMHO.. don't even consider BTO.

 

[Grumpy]

we had one local guy here that had one ... didn't really work that great in the beginning.. after 15/20 runs in a mid/high 12 sec car is was just about done

 

[chris718]

that transmission is about 100 less than the one we sell with the billet shaft forward drum included.

 

[BEATAV8]

Everybody in Chi-town will tell you.... go to Jimmy.

Don't worry about leaving your car with him. I'd leave my car with Jimmy any time.

Does that bowtie trans have a billet shaft forward drum? That's a must have.

 

[bison]

If your trying to save money here you will wind up spending a lot more in the end. A non billet shafted drum is a no no in almost all TR transmissions unless its nearly stock. That piece should not be in the transmission. Almost every TR that has any modification has over 450 ft/lbs of torque. Dont try and save money on torque converters either. A cheap one will not perform like it should.

 

[chris718]

jimmy uses our drums as well and is a reputable builder.

 

[BlackMetal]

Don't worry about leaving your car with him. I'd leave my car with Jimmy any time.

Yeah, my comment wasn't about a trust issue, I meant I wasn't sure about leaving my car in terms of my own work schedule and finding someone to give me a ride to pick it up when it's done, etc.

that transmission is about 100 less than the one we sell with the billet shaft forward drum included.

Yeah I noticed after posting this that the BTO $1500 unit is more closely matched to your Stage 1 for $1799, rather than comparing it to your stage 2.

If your trying to save money here you will wind up spending a lot more in the end..

I tried to point out in the beginning that I'm not trying to be cheap, I just didn't want to spend double the money without a clear explanation of what the $1500 unit didn't offer. As I said, I can always dig deeper into my wallet as long as I know it's justified. So that's why I came here to ask what the difference was. I have no problem spending the money, if I was really trying to be cheap I'd go through the headache of trying to take the trans apart myself and see what's happening. I just needed a few people to tell me that there is a solid reason not to go with the BTO unit and that's pretty much the answer I've received.



Thanks for the replies so far, maybe I can schedule a visit with Jimmy this week and see how much I'd have to spend with him. Anyone know his approximate business hours? I'd rather stop by with my car and discuss the matter in person instead of trying to get all the details straight over the phone.

 

[NJ Torque]

Yep... Had one in my monte... while It was fine for the most part, after I put in a cam and dynod 433 HP... it was slipping after only a few street passes...

 

[Sweet6]

Another vote for Jimmy. I bought 2 transmission from him. Both are the billet drum versions and work flawless. Plus he will stand behind his work.

BTW his labor for R&Ring the trans is basically free. He told me he can pull a trans in 10 minutes.

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

You can't beat Jimmy's local reputation. He is a great person to deal with and he stands behind his work. Just buy his race trans and be over it. You won't regret it. And you won't save any money by you taking it out and putting it in because he likes to check it out and make sure it's right. Jimmy will always be my local trans guy.

Steve

 

[BlackoutDrunk]

Jimmy's High Performance Transmission My buddy just dropped off his 87 TType to Jimmy last saturday. Jimmy seems extremely easy to work with and very straight up. His reputation is second to none around chicagoland.

this is right from his web page.....


SPECIALIZING IN REBUILT GM TRANSMISSIONS

Call about putting a TH 200 R4 in your Street Rod or Muscle Car to make it a real cruiser
You wll be glad you did for the mileage and still run the gears for quick acceleration.

Call JIMMY Toll Free @ 877-799-7507



TRANSMISSIONS

J-200 4R S
HDS Hardened Stator
Wide Alto red lined band
Shift Kit
Transgo pump ring kit
13.00 Sec. and up


J-200 4R SS
All of above plus
10 vain rotor (pump)
New pressure regulator valve
Line pressure regulator spring
Line pressure boost valve 0.500
2nd reverse boost valve 0.300
Alto race red clutches 3rd & 4th
Competition Valve Body
Pan Spacer & 700 4R Filter
11.50 Sec. and up


J-200 4R SSR
All of above plus
Steel input shaft Forward dDrum
Billet Servo 2nd Gear
Bearings in lace of thrust washers
OPTIONS:
Trans Brake
Steel input shaft
Steel Over dirve Carrier 4th
Deep Aluminum Pan

TORQUE CONVERTERS
Precision Industries
JW Performance
Dynamic


TRANSMISSION COOLERS
Hayden
Long

TRANSMISSION FLUID
AMS Oil Synthetic


Jimmy's High Performance Transmissions
888 B TOWER ROAD
MUNDELEIN, IL 60060

SHIPPING AVAILABLE


FULL LINE OF AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION PARTS NEW AND REBUILT
Getting your transmission done right the first time saves money, time and aggrevation

References are available upon request.

 

[Yedi]

Bowtie and PTS

I had this same discusion w/ my uncle. I spent nearly $4,000 for a Killer Street Tranny/Converter shipped from PTS. My Uncle has a Chevelle and went w/ Bowtie becuae they would supply him w/ everything to switch over to the 200r4 from a powerglide. Here's the kicker, for any type of warranty from Bowtie or to even make it shift right in your car, they want you to hook up a pressure gauge, drop the pan to adjust the TV cable and a bunch of other crap. when I talked to Bruce about everything when I had put the 200r4 in my car, after he ran it in his test car, he told me to set my TV cable wherever I liked it because my pressures were so high. I have over 1,500 miles on that transmission now, and I have to say that is the best money you can spend on your car, everyone that rides in my car cannot believe how hard it shifts, I love it.

Oh, as far as the 200r4 in my uncles Chevelle, he still hasnt installed it yet, I will make a post of how it performs when he does.

 

[ProTools4]

thats a slick picture.

nice pan too.