Yes exactly. Wastegate couldn't do it's job with a smaller turbo, high back pressure situation. Took a long time to finally diagnose, but finally figured it out. Had to lengthen the arm to match the 1:1 leverage ratio. With the bigger puck, and the opening ported to take advantage of the size the 18lb spring that you already feel won't get the job done for some reason is losing a lot of leverage by not keeping the same 1:1 leverage ratio? Simple geometry. What's the math on it? 25% less leverage? IDK. I didn't say anything was Jason's fault. I said multiple people brought it up to him, and when I personally spoke to him he agreed, and said he hadn't heard about it before, and bigger turbos were not having the same problem, but he agreed and said he was going to change it. Next person I know that called him about it he claimed he never heard of it before. I'm not saying you're wrong either, but I will say I know a lot of Buicks with internal wastegates. Some smaller, and some bigger than 6466, and they work flawlessly. I'm running a 6266 in my Buick with internal gate, stock puck diameter, and running high 9's @ 136+ Mph. Never had any boost control issues.I dont believe its Jason's fault interesting theory
Here is the proven science with built motors that move air fast.
There isnt enough pressure to keep the puck closed and the wastegate size may be not what the combo needs
there is a good amount of backpressure to bring up boost that quickly with a 64 billet bb turbo and the puck also may need more than just that probably 40 year spring and a small wastegate holeyes even if you enlarge it.
different behavior among these internally dumped wastegates happen due to what the car is doing in terms of the combo
The 64 turbo lites up fast
I've seen them hit full boost in .03 secs
You really think a a small internal gate with a 18lb spring is going to control boost regardless of puck angle?
That may save you a hundredth of a sec before it blows open
the external gates are much larger to get the flow out of the gate to control boost the pressure which can be speciffically added with co2
Boost creep
Blowing the gate open
Not getting the boost low enough or high enough
All indicators of the wastegate not doing its job
6466 Turbo Talk.
- Thread starter 434nova
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434nova
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I will let you know soon how this compare to the precision 6466 I had on it before. One thing I can tell you the hpt turbo spools faster and sounds different to the precision. Hope my converter can handle it all in on my combo.
My HPT 6466 spools quicker than the e cover 6262 it replaced
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I had a stock appearing journal bearing 6262 with a garret .63 housing on the car and my HPT 6466 spools faster.
The intake turbo whine is LOUD. I was actually trying to think of ways to quiet it down some.
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That's surprising , not saying its not possible in this day an age just surprising ...
Harry Hruska HPT
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I just thought it would save some time and effort if you needed better boos control
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Boost control is awesome with the external gate. I have had it as low as 7psi on the wg spring only and was able to hit 30 when feeling out the map for the boost solenoid. On my 6262 on the internal gate I had decent control but did have some creep issues above 24psi.
Your not controlling boost
Your using all of it.
136 on 62mm is an all in tongue out situation.
Unless the car is a paperweight.
I'm assuming those are your track times
controlling boost would be a situation where you could up the rpm leave and lower the boost in the initial hit
To whatever the car needed to leave and ramp it
This is an example of controlling boost.
This example above is how guys get there cars very fast on the street.
By controlling the ramps.
An internal gate wont dont that.
Certain scenarios depending on where the backpressure is at the internal gate can work to a point.
It's not that an internal cannot go fast.
Harry Hruska HPT
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Glad to hear the control is improved.
I have some more ideas we want to include on the Buick program. I jumped on here to get some first hand feedback!
Thank you for your business and Thank you for sharing.
Harry
Pronto
No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.
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Did it get confirmed that an external gate on the HPT will hit a Precision slic and interfere with fit? Was there a way around that if so?
Harry Hruska HPT
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For sure a problem. Thank you for sharing.
We are making a new bearing housing to accommodate the factory drain bolt pattern because the Buick application is so difficult. They will hit the market very soon. I also know Full Throttle Speed is making more drain lines.
I hope your making some serious Boost!!
Harry
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6466 Turbo Talk. Post #64.
Yes it will hit. I’ve got a turbosmart hypergate lite and it’s about 1/4” away from the intercooler even with the intercooler shimmed forward by about 1/2”. The shroud is now within 1/4” of the radiator fans.
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Bro. You're right. First pass ever after I finished building my motor it went 136.5 mph because there was nothing I could do to control the boost. Thank god I was spraying nitrous, and had E105 in my tank so I didn't blow the welds on my intake like Brian Spilner.... Dude! I almost had you! You never had me.... You never had your car! Anyway all the external exhaust bleeder system, or whatever boost control stuff you're talking about is for fast cars. 9 second budget build 109 works perfectly fine with my internal gate, and home made bleeder valve. I used one of the little water valves that comes with a fridge for the ice maker water line. Came up with that one all on my own. I'm not bragging about my car. It's not that fast. I'm sure your car is much faster...
You brought up your car
And 136 on a 62 is getting after it
Dont misjudge your doing alot with a 62 on a buick.
But........
there are alot of different ways to control boost
Manual controllers electronic controllers etc.
Internal
External
And electronic wastegates
And sometimes the best track cars dont make the best street cars
And vice versa.
I've seen plenty cars go faster on the street with the right setups then they can on the track
And I've seen plenty of cars that cant come within 2 seconds of their track et on the street.
External wastegates with co2 control and electronic boost controllers allow for ramp targets that will make all cars go faster and adapt to their environment/conditions.
Data and the ability to adjust to the conditions that your running is key to going faster and winning races.
It is safer and wiser to protect the speed investment with a good boost control and an external gate.
we race in all different types of air conditions and surfaces vary.
Having a gate that can adjust fast and boost controller that has safety features like overboost protection can keep the unknowns from destroying the car.
This cannot be done on the buick internal rod system
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No point in playing grammer police here on TB.com...... It will never take...
When backpressure is lowered and the compressor can move air this happens 100% of the time
It's how the newer designs work
The turbine wheels flow more and the compressor flows more every rotation of the shaft.
I'm seeing 5 to 7mm larger on both compressor and turbine wheel spool faster on larger ars and make 300hp more on the same motor combos
It's nice to be in turbo land now
But it needs to be latest wheel designs
I'm not arguing at all that internal is better than external. What I'm saying is there's a few things that you're saying can't be done with internal, or definitively saying internal wastegate is the issue, and I'm sorry, but numerous things you're claiming can't be done with internal gate are obviously things that you learned from Facebook professionals, or hearsay, or not being competent enough to to utilize an internal gate setup if you actually have real world experience fueling your tabloid "facts". I have real world experience, and also have many proven credible Chicagoland turbo Buick tuners, mechanics, and car owners making big power, a huge range of turbo sizes ranging from Stock computer with basic chip making low 10 second power, to Ecugn with multiple stage boost control (my Buick) to boost over limit safety, and no less reliable than external gate setup. Maybe acknowledge that you're just internal gate prejudice, and their just might be a possibility us poor Midwest guys with 9 second cars still using internal gate setups like peasants are allowed to use the same bathrooms, and /or drinking fountains as you.... Oh that makes me think of something else. 3 bolt Mafia! 3 bolt for life! Now I'm just trolling you for tomorrow's Mr. Spool tabloids. Let me guess I just got asked to portray you in the Mr. Spool tabloid short.You brought up your car
And 136 on a 62 is getting after it
Dont misjudge your doing alot with a 62 on a buick.
But........
there are alot of different ways to control boost
Manual controllers electronic controllers etc.
Internal
External
And electronic wastegates
And sometimes the best track cars dont make the best street cars
And vice versa.
I've seen plenty cars go faster on the street with the right setups then they can on the track
And I've seen plenty of cars that cant come within 2 seconds of their track et on the street.
External wastegates with co2 control and electronic boost controllers allow for ramp targets that will make all cars go faster and adapt to their environment/conditions.
Data and the ability to adjust to the conditions that your running is key to going faster and winning races.
It is safer and wiser to protect the speed investment with a good boost control and an external gate.
we race in all different types of air conditions and surfaces vary.
Having a gate that can adjust fast and boost controller that has safety features like overboost protection can keep the unknowns from destroying the car.
This cannot be done on the buick internal rod system
Buick customer John Smith. No matter what I do, or how high I turn up my boost I can't go faster than 11.50 @ 116 mph.
Mr Spool. 11.49 or faster just can not be achieved with a 3 bolt exhaust housing. I have a bunch of data to back up my claim, but gimme a minute. I need to go screen shot some FB posts. Don't wait up for me...
Good night
