700r4 detent problem....

[HOTTOGO]

I'm asking for a friend with a kickdown prob he is having a WOT. Here's a quote of what he told me, any help would be appreciated:
"I "FINALLY" replaced the B&M tranny with one of those "Raptor 700" transmissions out of Lousiana. I guess their website impressed me too much. Ha! Well, I've had to play with the governor a hell of a lot to get it to do what I want, but it's "right-on" now. Everything is perfect, couldn't be better EXCEPT "WOT" detent! It's had this kickdown problem from day one! Same problem in every gear! Oh yes, the problem! Ha! When I slam the gas pedal to the floor to go into passing gear (detent) nothing happens for atleast a second to a second and a half ! Atleast the B&M kicked down INSTANTLY!
I've tried four (4) different valve bodied and separator plates. Didn't make any difference whats-so-ever! It's finally dawned on me that it "ain't" a bad valve body! I figure that it's got to be something else in the case like maybe a improperly installed TV boost valve or wrong boost valve or maybe the 2-4 servo that came with the tranny. Maybe something's restricted or blocked.
This transmission doesn't have the TV exhaust checkball installed in it."

 

[WE4]

Govenor or tv sleeve but it aint the tv sleeve...ahhhhhhh

 

[HOTTOGO]

Originally posted by WE4
Govenor or tv sleeve but it aint the tv sleeve...ahhhhhhh

Thanx, Bruce!

 

[6PacktoGo]

Two things I'd like to know before I make an attempt at this one. First, I'd like to see the results of a full line pressure test. Second, I'd like to know a lot more about the vehicle in question, especially the geometry and condition of the TV cable. Yes, the governor is a big question, but it ain't by itself in that. A quick dirty and cheap attempt at a fix would be a governor swap, but I'd want to know why it fixed it if it did.

 

[MeanBuicks]

I'm with Alan on seeing a complete pressure test. Also, since no one has brought this up, what do the Raptor folks have to say about this transmission?

Having to change the VB four times in addition to messing with the governor on a fresh built transmission isn't an ideal situation. Has that zapped any warranty that may have existed?

What is the vehicle this is installed in? Is the TV cable and bracketry original?

 

[WE4]

That actually was my first question

But I felt funny asking......

Greg
"Also, since no one has brought this up, what do the Raptor folks have to say about this transmission?

Having to change the VB four times in addition to messing with the governor on a fresh built transmission isn't an ideal situation. Has that zapped any warranty that may have existed? "


Bruce
WE4

 

[HOTTOGO]

The car is an '87 Monte SS.......

Not original bracketry but a excellent clean replica.... "I made out of 301 1/2 hard .090" stainless steel to fit my Edelbrock Vortec manifold. I designed a new throttle arm and attached it to the arm on the Performer carb. The locations of the studs for the cruise control cable, throttle cable and the TV cable are in the same exact locations as they were on the old Q-Jet throttle arm. Trust me on that".......

"Let me clarify a few things before I go any further. First, the reason for the many valve body changes was because, Don the owner at Performance Automotive and Transmission Center out of Bossier City, Lousiana, said he believed that my WOT detent problem was probably in the valve body. Actually, he only sent me only two (2) valve bodies. Of course I had to re-calibrate my governor each time. Everything worked just fine with the replacements valve bodies, all except the WOT detent problem.
I actually went as far as buying a remanufactured valve body and corresponding separator plate for a '92 LT1 Corvette. That VB was the worst of them all! I lost my WOT detent completely above 45 mph.
There's a guy that I work with that said that I either had too high of a governor pressure or else my main line pressure wasn't strong enough to overcome the governor pressure, which we all know is suppose to cause a downshift at WOT."

RPMS Range Oil Pressure Oil Pressure
at Min. TV at Max. TV

1000 Park 75 psi 190-220
1000 Neutral 75 psi 190-220
1000 Overdrive 75 psi 210
1000 Manual 3rd. 75 psi 210

1000 Reverse 110-125 280

1000 Manual 2nd. 260 275-280
1000 Manual 1st. 260 275-280

***********************************************

At the present time, with the lightest throttle pressure possible (to carburetor) and still being able to accelerate, the transmission shifts from 1st. to 2nd. at 5-6 mph; from 2nd. to 3rd. at 19-20 mph. and from 3rd. to Overdrive at exactly 35 mph. My WOT shift from 1st. to 2nd. at exactly 5500 rpms; which I finally obtained (and wanted) with the secondary weights and springs.
Okay Mark, I sure appreciate you taking the time the help this old hotrodder.

 

[6PacktoGo]

The max TV pressures for 1st, 2nd, and reverse are fine, the min TV pressure for reverse looks slightly low, as does min and max for D and OD, at least for a well modified 700. I think 210 may not be enough to yield the results he wants. The PR spring and valve are able to generate as much as 280 psi in reverse, I'd expect 230 or so in D and OD. I'd also expect around 150 in reverse at min TV, which would be a 100% gain from the reverse/intermediate boost valve, over the 75 seen in D and OD. Notice the gain of over 200% in 1st and 2nd.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced there simply is not enough line pressure at max TV in D and OD, I'd want to take a close look that the PR valvetrain, especially the TV boost valve. Try another TV boost valve (at least a 0.500"), and a known quality PR spring, say from a Superior kit (cheap and locally available nearly everywhere). See if he can get max TV in D and OD up to 230-250. It may be something as simple as a bad TV boost valve that got through QC.

Having to recalibrate the governor each time the valvebody is changed tells me there were significant differences in pressures, which could likely be attributed to the line bias valve or the TV valvetrain. Personally, I block the line bias valve, and use something similar to the front coil springs in my dually for a TV plunger spring, but many others don't like that idea.

I'll think on this one today, and see if any other ideas pop up. Usually, a failure to downshift in a 700 is the result of low line pressure, TV valvetrain problems, or a funky governor. In this case, there may be more than one factor. What does the company that built it say?

 

[HOTTOGO]

Re: That actually was my first question

Originally posted by WE4
But I felt funny asking......

Bruce
WE4

What you.... feel funny.... about laying it on the line... LOL! I thought you'd be the first to ask "whats PATC got to say about it" hehe but thanx, for not bust'in my balls with it....

 

[HOTTOGO]

First off remember the tv cable and bracket worked fine with his B&M, so that is doubtfully the prob. As for what the builder (PATC) says, here's a quote from John the trannie owner:

"Concerning the response I received from Performance Automotive & Transmission Center in Lousiana when I contacted them with my problem, all Don (the owner) said was he would send me another valve body because he believed that would cure my delayed WOT detent problem. Well, it didn't do the trick so I contacted PATC again. This time I asked them to just send me another transmission and I would even pay for the freight charges. I told Don that my car was my only driver and I couldn't afford too long of a down time. I told him that as soon as I swapped transmissions that I'd ship the defective tranny back to him immediately. Would you believe that he suggested that I should try another valve body!!! Sooooo, he sent me another VB, same results!!!! Finally, I wrote him a diplomatic letter stating that his return policies and products were far from being good!
I finally just reached to point of just giving up with "those people"! That's when I decided to get a "good" valve body from Chevrolet."

Kinda sounds like what you'd expect from a reputable tranny shop, right.... LOL! Just kidding guy's

So would the PTS PR system for the 2004r work in the 700r4? I know the tv boost and assume spring will, how bout the inter. boost and pr valve?

 

[HOTTOGO]

.500" boost valve, larger than stock inter. boost valve, stiffer pr spring and still no change. Any other thoughts yet from anybody?

 

[6PacktoGo]

Like I told him, there have been some bad TV boost valves AND int boost valves. Ain't that right Bruce? I sent him some mail.

 

[HOTTOGO]

Found that out late last nite, thanx for the help!