9 Second Engine Build-Up: What Cam?

[Joe Lubrant]

Originally posted by 86brick
No doubt Dave was making more power, but I don't think the extra cubes had much (if anything) to do with it! I personally think the fact that Dave is using those ported GN1 aluminum heads is the main reason he's making more power than Roy..... I guess we'll have to wait and see cause from what I've heard Roy will be stepping up from the Champion irons to the GN1 aluminums, but it will still be a little 234ci motor

Larger Cubic In engines will always have the potential for more HP then smaller engines, this is a proven fact.

If you go from a 231ci to say a 249ci ---increase of 18 ci and say an easy 3 hp per c.i. thats a 54 hp increase in power. Not to mention the additional Torque increase that always accompanies larger cubic inch engines.

The statement assumes that the turbo and fueling is available, which of course it was in Daves case.

Granted the Alum. GN1 heads have more potential flow capabilities then the Iron, but really good Iron heads should still flow the potential delivery of air provided by a PT70 GTQ.

Even with every thing else being equal, say both cars having GN-1's etc. the smaller engine needs to run more boost or rpm or both to equal the power of the larger engine.

The TSM limitations/rules do a more than decent job on equalizing the power potential of either combination by using weight penalty for alum. heads.

I am not sure if anyone was running a 248-249ci Iron headed engine???, but that possibly would be a combination to be reckoned with if done properly???

I am aware of the big bore-short stroke thoery and personally feel it would not be the right combination for a TSM car, due to the restriction of turbo size, stock intakes, etc. that would limit the rpm & power potential of the engine.

I know it works on a High HP Stage II engine at 221 cu in @ 8000+ rpm with Twin Turbo's, but I think it will destroy a stock type 109 3.8 or 4.1 block.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[86brick]

Joe, you do make a good argument for the extra cubes! So basically what you're saying is you think Roy would be better off going with more cubes (say the same amount as Dave) and staying with his iron heads rather than keeping his smaller cube motor and using aluminum heads? That is an interesting argument! I still think those aluminum heads are worth more than the extra cubes because I know for a fact that out of the box GN1 aluminums (not ported) have been proven to flow better than your best set of Champion iron heads so what's going to happen when you port a set of those GN1 aluminum heads

I know that old saying "There's no replacement for displacement!" and I believe it (as long as all things are equal including the tune)!

I know one thing.... Laz doesn't seem to think it's worth stroking Roy's motor (guess we'll find out if he's right or not)

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Originally posted by 86brick
Joe, you do make a good argument for the extra cubes! So basically what you're saying is you think Roy would be better off going with more cubes (say the same amount as Dave) and staying with his iron heads rather than keeping his smaller cube motor and using aluminum heads? That is an interesting argument! I still think those aluminum heads are worth more than the extra cubes because I know for a fact that out of the box GN1 aluminums (not ported) have been proven to flow better than your best set of Champion iron heads so what's going to happen when you port a set of those GN1 aluminum heads

I know that old saying "There's no replacement for displacement!" and I believe it (as long as all things are equal including the tune)!

I know one thing.... Laz doesn't seem to think it's worth stroking Roy's motor (guess we'll find out if he's right or not)

Right........as I said Better flowing heads give you the potential for more hp as long as you can supply the additional air, if you can't supply the additional air they are capable of ,then they are not that big of an advantage. (More cubes help here)
I personally don't know the limit of the Irons, but lets say a PT70 can flow 1300 cfm. and the Irons can flow at least up to that limit.
Say the GN-1 can flow 1450 as an example. If the turbo is done at 1300 cfm than neither will produce more power. (Don't forget the 150# penalty)

Another example: everyone knows that a Full Stage II head will totally outflow GN-1's, but if both engine build ups are limited to say a PT88 then the GN-1's have the same power output capability as the Stage II deal. I think Cal has already proven that in the real world. I don't think the same would prove true if a PT91.5, 94, or 98 turbo was put in the equation. These turbo's would for sure outflow the potential of the GN1's, but the Stage II heads would easily handle the additional flow, and make more power.

I understand the reason for Roy electing to go with the Aluminum heads vs stroker. I would probably do the same....it will also help later if he decides to run a larger turbo with more flow than the irons could handle.

Wish both fellows good luck with their new combo's they will probably need it, as others are also getting into the hunt. TSM will be more exciting for sure in 2004

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by Joe Lubrant
Right........as I said Better flowing heads give you the potential for more hp as long as you can supply the additional air, if you can't supply the additional air they are capable of ,then they are not that big of an advantage. (More cubes help here)
I personally don't know the limit of the Irons, but lets say a PT70 can flow 1300 cfm. and the Irons can flow at least up to that limit.
Say the GN-1 can flow 1450 as an example. If the turbo is done at 1300 cfm than neither will produce more power. (Don't forget the 150# penalty)

Another example: everyone knows that a Full Stage II head will totally outflow GN-1's, but if both engine build ups are limited to say a PT88 then the GN-1's have the same power output capability as the Stage II deal. I think Cal has already proven that in the real world. I don't think the same would prove true if a PT91.5, 94, or 98 turbo was put in the equation. These turbo's would for sure outflow the potential of the GN1's, but the Stage II heads would easily handle the additional flow, and make more power.

I understand the reason for Roy electing to go with the Aluminum heads vs stroker. I would probably do the same....it will also help later if he decides to run a larger turbo with more flow than the irons could handle.

Wish both fellows good luck with their new combo's they will probably need it, as others are also getting into the hunt. TSM will be more exciting for sure in 2004

Well I can't argue with that! You're not kidding about others getting into the hunt cause Guy Robinson claims to have run 6.18 @115mph in the 1/8th in TSM trim and has said that at the upcoming Bradenton event he will run 150mph with the TSM legal 70mm turbo

Check out the thread where Guy is selling his car......

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110218

What do ya think Joe? Do you think it's possible for him to run 150mph with a 70/71 GTQ turbo with a car that weighs around 3400-3500lbs?

Would be cool to see a stock block car that needs a 'chute

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Originally posted by 86brick
Well I can't argue with that! You're not kidding about others getting into the hunt cause Guy Robinson claims to have run 6.18 @115mph in the 1/8th in TSM trim and has said that at the upcoming Bradenton event he will run 150mph with the TSM legal 70mm turbo

Check out the thread where Guy is selling his car......

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110218

What do ya think Joe? Do you think it's possible for him to run 150mph with a 70/71 GTQ turbo with a car that weighs around 3400-3500lbs?

Would be cool to see a stock block car that needs a 'chute

That type of MPH would normally take at least a PT74 or PT76 GTQ type turbo at those weights stated.
I would think something like 950hp....I didn't calc it ...my best guess

I'll say one thing for Guy, he's definitetly committed to being competitive, and with the help and tuning expertise of Brad Brand of Atlanta Chassis Dyno in Ga. He will be a contender.

 

[86brick]

According to my trusty HP calculator http://home.neo.rr.com/jturrin/calchp1.htm for a 3400-3500lb car to run 150mph it would take around 950-1000hp at the flywheel which would also lead me to believe that it would take at least a PT74 or PT76 GT style turbo as you said..... If he does go 150mph with that turbo you guys better change the HP ratings!!!

 

[TURBO 6]

I know Guy personally, he's not kidding. He is stepping up his combo.
Damn, I wish I could get off of work to make it to Fla. I know I won't be the "Man" in TSM, but I won't be the slowest car there.

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by TURBO 6
I know Guy personally, he's not kidding. He is stepping up his combo.
Damn, I wish I could get off of work to make it to Fla. I know I won't be the "Man" in TSM, but I won't be the slowest car there.

Tell work your Aunt Sally died in Bradenton, Florida and you have to attend the funeral or maybe you could get sick that weekend......

 

[1000MileStylez]

Im just stepping in here, im not running a TSM class Im not looking to qualify but i am looking for ET. I was going to wait till the eagle crank came out but i would like the motor be done for spring/summer. Once the new crank is out and a stroker i available, then the tear down begins.

My set up

GN1's
218/212 hyd roller
h-beam rods
LT72 Turbo
stock crank
.030 pistons
girdled block with center mains
and plenty of fuel

my car is completly gutted
pics can be seen here http://groups.msn.com/mygrandnat/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

My fenders,hood etc are all fiberglass, im estimating a 3100 lb car with cage with out driver.

Now what do you guys think as far as power made by my engine. I posted here cause i didnt want to start another "what will my car run thread"

 

[Little Teaspoon]

still working in iraq but i am still here in enjoying

hello i am still here working in iraq , but i do have serveral question

i recently purchase a 71 bb turbo and want to place a 5" down pipe alone with AMS 1000 BOOST CONTROLLER IS THIS possible on a stock block?

next i am going with MSD DIS HO -4 & FAST SYSTEM IS this suitable for 93 pump gas with 95lbs injectors?

nexts i changed the intercooler to a RJC LARGE COOLER, Metahol injection, will have serveral items brand new for sale ?

te-45a turbo
intercooler new
down pipe 3"
two sets of 60lbs injector / & chip

plus any addition parts that might help some one trying to budget i am going to sell cheat because every one needs a chance at there dream car

jr083060@yahoo.com :smile:

 

[49-blues]

Little teaspoon- i believe you will need atleast a good set of ported heads, I dont think you can fit a 5" dpwnpipe- maybe a 5" elbow with a 4" downpipe is possible.

 

[NJ Torque]

get a 218/218.

 

[nordy racer]

loss some weight, and that will get you into the 9's..

 

[1000MileStylez]

wow this thread was dug up from the grave