achalmersman stroker 4.1 build (291 block)

[achalmersman]

10/4 ...just curious ...especially if its no one on the forum ...interseting...hope you get her done or the best alternative..

Well i just realized his name is in a 2017 post from this thread anyway.... its Bill Coleman in Lithicum MD. Again, nice guy im probably just a small fish in his pond.

 

[achalmersman]

In my experience, most machining projects have a typical 9-15 month wait unless you have them on standby. A lot of it is likely related to setup amortization and profit margins, unless of course you pay top dollar to get your project in front.

I know what you mean. That being said I'm never one to bust balls on price. I dont even ask. Im the guy that when I get a recomendation and decide to use you I drop my shit off, don't ask the price, and ask if you need a deposit. That doesn't mean I have a bunch of money, I just appreciate labor, the cost of doing business, and I want it done right.

 

[Jerryl]

I know what you mean. That being said I'm never one to bust balls on price. I dont even ask. Im the guy that when I get a recomendation and decide to use you I drop my shit off, don't ask the price, and ask if you need a deposit. That doesn't mean I have a bunch of money, I just appreciate labor, the cost of doing business, and I want it done right.

Same here.

 

[TexasT]

Probably time to ask the tough question and get him to commit to a finish date. If he can't commit it becomes time to get your parts and move forward elsewhere. But it is your parts and your project so you have to make that kind of decision.

Sounds like you have experienced pretty big changes in lifestyle. Different hobby, new child and probably other things. Sometimes it is hard to keep focused on a slow moving car project

 

[Mr.Spool]

Well i just realized his name is in a 2017 post from this thread anyway.... its Bill Coleman in Lithicum MD. Again, nice guy im probably just a small fish in his pond.

sounds like he doesn't know your in his pond.time to get someone else to build it 2 years is bullshit.

 

[434nova]

I know what you mean. That being said I'm never one to bust balls on price. I dont even ask. Im the guy that when I get a recomendation and decide to use you I drop my shit off, don't ask the price, and ask if you need a deposit. That doesn't mean I have a bunch of money, I just appreciate labor, the cost of doing business, and I want it done right.

I always ask what it will cost. Never just drop it off and don’t ask a price. So there is no surprises on your end. The price is the price but I don’t need no surprises. I had a buddy drop a car off at a chassis shop to get turbo piping done on the car. When he got the call and was told it’s ready for pickup he asked how much do I owe. The guy told him 15,000 just to do hotside piping and cold side on the intercooler. My buddy told the guy he wants a detailed bill and the shop dropped 5000 off the price saying they made a mistake. Now if he never asked for a detailed bill on the work they would have gladly took that extra 5000. So I always ask for a price but I accept it. Just a lesson learned from his situation.

 

[achalmersman]

Yea I guess I should say I would never drop something off for custom fabricstion work without asking. But this is normal machine work within the scope of everything else he does on a daily basis. He's done work for me before so I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not worried about him being 3x what anybody else would charge since I know him to be fair. So yea I just dropped it off and didn't ask prices. I knew he would be fair. When I worked for my dad we had customers that treated us the same way. They knew we were always fair and never asked pricing, and just paid the bill when they picked up.

 

[Grumpy]

The price is the price but I don’t need no surprises.

How can ya give a cost when ya don't know what you have to do ?? Just because parts are new doesn't mean squat. If it comes in a box it's made to fit ??? Used parts.. crap shoot.. Well the motor was running great when I pulled it out. Well the crank is cracked.. What do ya wanna do.

I'd be more concerned about your $15k in parts hanging around for 2 years. Parts do have legs ya know an SHIT DOES HAPPEN !!!

 

[Grumpy]

When I worked for my dad we had customers that treated us the same way. They knew we were always fair and never asked pricing, and just paid the bill when they picked up.

years ago that's how things were. Your "word" meant something. Today ??? Sadly things have changed.

I'd go an talk to him in person. Try to give him a little push to get it goin. Be reasonable. If it doesn't work I'd say I have to take it out . Don't yell an scream like a Chris Rock senerio .. Don't burn bridges . Dan's wisdom of the day.

 

[Jerryl]

Dan's wisdom of the day.

Reminds of this . . Lol

View attachment

 

[434nova]

How can ya give a cost when ya don't know what you have to do ?? Just because parts are new doesn't mean squat. If it comes in a box it's made to fit ??? Used parts.. crap shoot.. Well the motor was running great when I pulled it out. Well the crank is cracked.. What do ya wanna do.

I'd be more concerned about your $15k in parts hanging around for 2 years. Parts do have legs ya know an SHIT DOES HAPPEN !!!

I’m sure it’s not his first rodeo. Let’s be for real here you don’t go to a carpenter to build you a engine. Let the builder quote high but atleast give me a estimate before you start the job so j i know where I stand.

 

[achalmersman]

years ago that's how things were. Your "word" meant something. Today ??? Sadly things have changed.

I'd go an talk to him in person. Try to give him a little push to get it goin. Be reasonable. If it doesn't work I'd say I have to take it out . Don't yell an scream like a Chris Rock senerio .. Don't burn bridges . Dan's wisdom of the day.

I would go but its an hour and a half trip each way. I'll try to give him a call tomorrow. Meant to do it today but didn't catch a break at work.

 

[Grumpy]

Let the builder quote high but atleast give me a estimate before you start the job so j i know where I stand.

Well I have been doin the engine rodeo since the late 60's. I don't care what job ya have.. Builders, plumbers, electricians, Body shops Had one car that went to 3 shops in 5 years an never got done. Thats when I learned to do body work . I never gave estimates. Being a builder and workin on Buicks. Way to many variables on what ya run into. Thank God I could pick an choose my jobs I wanted.

 

[earlbrown]

Anybody reading this... of all the advice, listing to Grumpy.

He's actually correct.


This is speaking from someone that has access to the inside of a machine shop... If you show up and just have have have to have an exact price, you're going to end up with the ''Oh shit, I have to replace everything and do extra work above and beyond the normal'' price.

Now, timelines on the other hand... That one is tricky. Machine shops like small jobs. They come, they go, you get paid. Big jobs like a performance engine are a bitch. There's literally 1,000,000 ways to get spun out (and have to eat it) when you're doing a max effort thing with your name on it (and you give a shit).


I can't count how many times I've told the owner of the shop I use at night ''WE DON'T BUILD PERFORMANCE SHIT! Sell them a stock head for a 2.8 V6."



That being said, my advise for this exact dilemma is to call and ask what it'll take to get the block itself finished. It has to be close to done if it's not ready. Since you got the pistons from me, that means you already have a final bore size and an established deck height. Odds are the block was bored way back when and the final hone was for when the machinist has the slugs in hand and thermally matched to the block and measuring tools.
A hone job in 6 holes, jet wash, and cam bearings isn't that big of a deal.

If you can get the block home, you can start doing the mains, checking the main clearances and the thrust.

That will be a push to get whatever heads he may or may not have finished, etc...



The LAST thing you want to do is mention locking in some arbitrary finish date. That only ends in one of three ways.... You either have to go pick up all your stuff (in whatever shape it's in and you won't know), he knocks it out and it's half assed, but ''It's done''. And the third is that it's magically done with care under artificial pressure for a timeline that has nothing to do with actual machining.
That will happen almost as fast as finding a feminist leftie, with an open mind, that's open to new data.

 

[achalmersman]

That being said, my advise for this exact dilemma is to call and ask what it'll take to get the block itself finished. It has to be close to done if it's not ready. Since you got the pistons from me, that means you already have a final bore size and an established deck height. Odds are the block was bored way back when and the final hone was for when the machinist has the slugs in hand and thermally matched to the block and measuring tools.
A hone job in 6 holes, jet wash, and cam bearings isn't that big of a deal.

If you can get the block home, you can start doing the mains, checking the main clearances and the thrust.

That will be a push to get whatever heads he may or may not have finished, etc...

Yea you're on the right track. He had already done the final hone, decked, installed cam bearings fit the billet caps and line honed. Then I had it for several months (maybe a year). When I got the crank (gn1 4340) one of the mains were tighter than I wanted. It was 2 years ago but I wanna say it was like 0.0009". So I needed stuff done anyway I took him the block and he was to set the main and rod clearances, rod side clearances, balance the assy, verify cam / rod clearance, and set the ring caps since I've heard the ones I bought are an absolute bitch without a ring gap grinder. He also has a cam profiler so I asked him to profile my brand new cam to make sure its close to the card. He doesn't have the heads, I was to finish all final assembly. I have a set of race ported TA SEs and springs / retainers, etc from Bison.

 

[earlbrown]

All my mains are .0009" on my 4.1.

 

[achalmersman]

All my mains are .0009" on my 4.1.

Yea I know you like em' tight.... I'd have to go back through my messages but the others were closer to 0.018"-0.020 which is kind of what I was hoping for.

 

[earlbrown]

It's not so much that I liked them that way... It's just what my build came out to at the time.

I tightened up the vertical clearance on my main caps to minimum spec and polished the living shit out of my crank. It spun like butter so I let it fly.

Plus, I get to run something stupid like 0W20

 

[hemi8]

Bill did my old 109, twice (spit out an oil galley plug onto the timing chain after the first build, ahhh what fun) and did a perfect job each time. This was probably 15 years ago and he was as old as the hills back then. Someone else local had him machine his TA aluminum block and did a perfect job, he's good but very old now. Bill was doing headgasket research for Felpro when I visited him, he is a top machinist and engine builder, he and his brother built a lot of race engines over the past 40 years. He had my parts for about 8 months which I thought was a good turn-around time.

Mike

 

[achalmersman]

ahhh.. Got all my shit back on Friday. Cleaned up the parts, made a phone call and planned a trip. All my stuff (heads and all) are now in the hands of somebody I have 100% confidence in. Hopefully this super long-term project starts rolling again.